Hi Al, They should still use strips as a written record of all the instructions given to the acft but I'm not sure what format they take. Over here, procedural sectors had bays corresponding to mandatory reporting points with a strip for each acft due to report at that point. The level and estimate was used to alert the controller to conflictions. We now use electronic strips and I'm not sure how they work as far as conflict alert is concerned on a radar sector. There is an electronic conflict alert system which flashes the acft paints a different colour and sounds an aural alarm but I believe this was deactivated or not working in this case. Grant SYD QF allan9 wrote: > Grant, > Don't they still post flight progress strips and the fix posting should show > two aircraft at the same altitude. Or are you saying they don't use and/or > check strips in a radar sector over there? > > Al > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Grant McKenzie" <grantmckenzie@optushome.com.au> > To: <AIRLINE@LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU> > Sent: Saturday, July 20, 2002 10:29 PM > Subject: Re: NYTimes.com Article: Doomed Planes Tried to Avoid Collison > > > >>TCAS doesn't communicate with ground ATC. It's essentially a last line >>of defence type of device which goes into action when planes start >>getting seriously close. If a TCAS RA is issued the acft are already in >>conflict by the ATC definition of the term. >> >>And yes, procedural control (which uses flight progress strips) is >>designed to highlight potential conflicts although I think this conflict >>occurred in a radar sector. >> >>Grant >>SYD >>QF >> >>allan9 wrote: >> >> >>>John, >>>Unless they have made some radical improvements since I retired TCAS >>> > doesn't > >>>communicate with the controllers. Don't they use flight progress >>> > strips? > >>>It would seem as though the strip postings would have shown a potential >>>conflict before the controler even worked the aircraft. DoDo just >>> > doesn't > >>>happen. >>> >>>Al >>> >>>----- Original Message ----- >>>From: "John Kurtzke" <kurtzke@up.edu> >>>To: <AIRLINE@LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU> >>>Sent: Saturday, July 20, 2002 1:19 PM >>>Subject: Re: NYTimes.com Article: Doomed Planes Tried to Avoid Collison >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>Does TCAS communicate with ATC? If not, this crash makes it look like it >>>>should. What is the sense of a system figuring out what the two planes >>>>should do, tell each other, and not tell ATC automatically. >>>> >>>>john >>>> >>>>On Sat, 20 Jul 2002, Grant McKenzie wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>Hi Scotty, >>>>> >>>>>Long time no natter. >>>>> >>>>>It's sounding more and more like the Swiss ATC guy screwed up. Or, more >>>>>accurately, the system screwed up and the poor sod up the sharp end was >>>>>left wearing it. A mate of mine who was over in Geneva for a ATC >>>>>conference a couple of years back and was taken to the ATC simulator >>>>>which also takes a live feed from Eurocontrol, including the sector in >>>>>question and he said it is a hellishly complicated piece of airspace. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>Grant >>>>>SYD >>>>>QF