On Thu, May 14, 2020 at 11:51:11AM -0700, Samuel Sieb wrote: > On 5/14/20 11:34 AM, Joe Zeff wrote: > > On 05/14/2020 12:20 PM, Samuel Sieb wrote: > > > > > > Besides, you say the file doesn't vanish until the last program > > > closes it. While technically true, it's not practically true. > > > Sure, the inode still exists in the file system, but the name is > > > gone or points to a different file. So even if one application > > > still has it open, another one will get a different version and > > > that's another potential failure point. > > > > Having the inode in use by a different file would be a nasty bug. The > > only thing that makes sense is for the file to exist, although no longer > > listed in the directory, but only accessible by files that were using it > > before it was deleted. If you disagree, please explain why your case > > makes sense and doesn't lead to file corruption. > > I'm saying that if one executable has a shared library open and then that > library is deleted, the inode still exists. However, the same path could > now point to a different inode with a new version of the library and any > executables getting started after will get that. This applies to any other > file types as well > > But this discussion is rather irrelevant anyway. You're not going to get > what you want. Online updates are not "supported". You can do them if you > want, but you are on your own. I do online upgrades (not system upgrades), > but I also generally reboot right after. I prefer to do them online so I > can keep using the computer while it's happening but also dnf doesn't > support offline updates yet. There's all sorts of other issues as well: * If you apply updates and don't restart anything, you are not taking advantage of whatever fixes or security issues were fixed by still running the old thing. Yes, you can restart things manually, but you can't do this in a safe way automatically for everything without causing lost work for users sometimes. * Important items may crash during the update, leaving your machine in a bad state and requiring a reboot anyhow. There was a very nice case of this years ago when doing a dnf distro-sync to the next fedora version some low level item got restarted and if you were running in a GUI it would crash your desktop (killing dnf, and leaving you 1/2 upgraded). It was of course fixed up, but if you do insist on live updates, you should probibly do them in a tmux or screen. * While you are applying updates on a live system, other things are happening. So, you can have some other process fill up your disk, or do something to a library the upgrade process itself is using, etc. Anyhow, yes, most of the time its just fine... until it isn't. kevin
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