On Sun, 10 May 2020 at 14:07, Geoffrey Leach <geoff@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Sun, 10 May 2020 12:20:44 -0400
Jonathan Billings <billings@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> On May 10, 2020, at 11:54, George N. White III <gnwiii@xxxxxxxxx>
> wrote:
> >
> >
> >> On Sun, 10 May 2020 at 12:00, Jonathan Billings
> >> <billings@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >
> >> On May 10, 2020, at 08:47, George N. White III <gnwiii@xxxxxxxxx>
> >> wrote:
> >> > Linux development today is mostly funded by big businesses and
> >> > governments. Large enterprises have tight controls over email
> >> > for security, legal, and business continuity reasons. Those
> >> > controls could break down if MTA's are installed by default
> >> > without explicit action by administrators. One consequence is
> >> > a move away from using email for status reports (cron, logwatch)
> >> > towards job management tools that provide resource management
> >> > and scheduling as well as logging and status reporting.
> >> >
> >> > Maybe Fedora will need small business and hobbyist spins.
> >>
> >> I think it’s more likely that email is one of the biggest vectors
> >> of spam and malware and it’s unmaintained MTAs that end up being
> >> used to generate a lot of bogus email. On top of that, a lot of
> >> ISPs are blocking outbound port 25 so MTAs in a default
> >> configuration can’t deliver mail off the host anymore anyway.
> >
> > Those issues have been around for many years. The removal of MTA's
> > from linux distros is relatively recent, and came after
> > climate-gate and DNC email fiascos raised the profile of email at
> > high levels of enterprise management.
>
> I suspect you might be over-politicizing this issue. The Fedora
> discussion:
>
> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/NoDefaultSendmail#Detailed_Description
>
> It’s worth noting that they reference Ubuntu’s decision from 2007. If
> anything, Fedora’s decision is well past due.
Apple has been providing postfix up to and including Catalina (there are,
however, reports of problems on Catalina). Distro decisions reflect the
user base. In my experience, the Ubuntu user community is dominated
by people who previously used MS Windows and have no expectation of
local email.
>
> Local mail delivery isn’t really a common configuration anymore, so
> it makes sense to slim down the default install and leave installing
> an MTA to people who are willing to properly configure the MTA to
> forward messages to a proper mail drop.
>
> LSB requires a sendmail binary, but I think in this case LSB that’s
> out of date with modern usage.
Agree.
>
> --
> Jonathan Billings
>
Local mail delivery may not be common, but it is something that
needs to be done. If not sendmail, then what?
Stop creating messages with programs.
ad-hoc workflows when policies changed (mail should be
generated or read by non-humans). At the same time, new
problems associated with managing resources on multi-core
workstations were cropping up. W
As a point in case, and probably a side effect of social distancing,
forums for EAS and NASA remote sensing data users have had
an increase in requests for help with "out of memory" problems
for workflows they have been using regularly. This may be due
to users trying to run jobs on laptops at home instead of the
heavily configured workstations in their lab, but it indicates the
value of a job submission tool that can apply resource constraints.
George N. White III
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