On 2020-04-19 08:33, stan via users wrote:
On Sat, 18 Apr 2020 21:24:01 -0700
ToddAndMargo via users <users@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
I provide IT services to small businesses that can not
afford their own staff. What I have noticed is that
Firefox no longer works on business to business portals,
especially government ones. And online ordering has
been impacted too. You can't finalize and place an
order on swansonvitamins.com. The only tech support
and sales chat service I can get to work is Star Tech's.
Things are just getting worse and worse.
What I have been doing is installing both Firefox and
Brave on customer's machines. I tell them if one
browser does not work, use the other. I have had to
make folks default browser Brave due to these issues.
This is sad as I adore Firefox and hate to see it
dying like this.
The thing is that Firefox is not tolerant of mistakes
on web sites. They are purest and think the web site
should be fixed. The customers do not care. Their
attitude is "either it works or it does not. Here
is a quarter, go tell your excuses to someone that
cares. I will use what works." It is harsh, but it
is also reality.
I run firefox nightly, the development version. I see hundreds to
thousands of changes to firefox daily. So it is being actively
maintained and developed.
What you are describing was explained by Tim in another post that you
agreed with. My take is that you are installing security holes on your
customer's machines. You should definitely get them to sign a waiver
that you are not responsible for any security breaches.
I *like* that firefox is security conscious. It warns me so I know
there is a threat, and then gives me the option of continuing or
leaving. I have control, not some browser developer who decides for me
without my knowledge.
Hey, I get it. Most people, including small business people, don't care
about security, as long as they get to do what they want, when they
want; it's too much effort and hassle. All we have to look at is the
billions in dollars that black hat hackers extract from them to know
that. So, you are walking a line between staying in business and
security, and if you don't stay in business, you won't have to worry
about security. Easy call.
Hi Stan,
If you are using Firefox Nightlies, you are in for a
wild ride. They are B-U-G-G-Y. I only test them when
I am forced to for by some issue and I get back off them
as soon as possible
Mozilla has a LONG history of not working around broken
code on web sites. The idea is if enough users complain,
then the web site will fix their code. The problem
is "enough users".
But here is the rub. Firefox has been dumped by so many
people over this issue, that it is no longer a serious choice
for anyone who wants a broadly compatible browser.
Here are the statistics:
https://netmarketshare.com/browser-market-share.aspx
Firefox now only has 8.49% of the market. And because of that,
Firefox users are seen as ridiculous when they ask a web
site to fix their code. NO ONE will put the effort into
making their stuff work with a niche browser that only 8%
of users actually use.
And what makes you think Firefox is the king of security?
Here is a run down:
https://vpnpro.com/blog/most-secure-browser/
Firefox is rated number 4, behind number 2 Ungoogled Chromium
(Blink) and number 3 Brave (Blink).
So as long as you stay away from Chrome (google), your
security is just fine adn the same or better than Firefox.
And as far as business goes, #1 is works, #2 is security.
I CAN NOT tell a customer to drop their customer because
their customer's business-to-business portal does not
work in an obscure browser -- be it Firefox, Opera, Safari,
are Acme Browser.
Why would I tell a customer to close his business because
his customer ignores a weird, obscure niche browser, such
as Firefox, especially since Firefox give no extra security
protection or privacy over non-googled Blink based browsers?
If the buyer demands you use Blink, you use Blink. There
are plenty of other sellers out there that want our business.
Closing one's business is not an option.
Brave (Blink) run very well and is even more private that Firefox. Here
is a study for you to look at
https://www.scss.tcd.ie/Doug.Leith/pubs/browser_privacy.pdf
Firefox fall in the middle. The most private is the
Blink based Brave.
Firefox is not more secure and not more private than
ungoogled Blink. And at 8.49% of the market, Firefox
is in no position to demand anything from anyone.
Either they fix their stuff (not my exact word) or
their market shared will drop to oblivion.
Don't get me wrong. I adore Firefox and have been
a fan since Netscape. But unless they change their
attitude, they are not a good choice for a broadly
compatible browser.
And to repeat myself, this is the customer's attitude:
It either works or it does not.
I will use what works.
Here is a quarter, go tell your excuses to someone who cares
Now for security, I do security consulting for PCI (Payment Card
Industry). The overwhelming cause of security breaches
is the user, not the software. He does stupid things,
like inserting unknown USB flash drives into his system and
clicking an any link he finds.
The CLASSIC way to breach a company is to draw up a bunch
of flash drive with viruses on them, and scatter them in
the companies parking lot at night. About one in twenty
get plugged in.
And ransomware is almost always the user being tricked into
clicking on a link in this eMail.
Now if you really, really, really cared about security,
you would drop Windows and move to Fedora. But then
you are back to the same old problem. If Fedora does
not run the software you need it to run, "it does not work.
I will use what works". It does not matter if Fedora
is 1000 times better written and has 10,000 times better
security than Windows, the customer does not care.
-T
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