On 06/27/2018 11:39 AM, Todd Chester wrote: > > > On 06/27/2018 11:19 AM, bruce wrote: >> Also, given that centos is behind in terms of php/python/etc.. are >> there "better" OS/platforms to use? > > Hi Bruce, > > Oh good golly! CentOS (RHEL) is a MISERABLE bug riddled OS. > I used it for years and almost went INSANE. Simply put, RHEL is > an Anti-Kaisen (Kaisen = Constant Improvement) OS. They > take a snapshot of a defunct versions of Fedora and freeze it > in place. The last straw was when RHEL ate my business > contacts in Osmo every time I shut down. Mind you Osmo > has this issue fixed but could do nothing for me as > RHEL is wildly out of date. That and it would not > run on modern motherboards. I can pretty much guarantee it wasn't RHEL, but YOUR version of Osmo that did that. That's like blaming Windows for corrupting your contact list when it was really Outlook that did it. On top of that, you obviously have no concept of how Fedora, RHEL and CentOS are related. Once Red Hat determines that Fedora is significantly improved/updated and STABLE over the previous RHEL version, it takes a snapshot of that version of Fedora and that becomes the next version of RHEL. Fedora development continues on, leaving RHEL further behind, but at the point it was forked, RHEL is STABLE and supportable by their staff. Once RHEL is out and available, CentOS downloads the source RPMs for the entire system, rebrands them, builds new RPMs from them and publishes the next release of CentOS. Hence, CentOS lags behind RHEL a bit as they must wait for the RHEL SRPMs to be published and for them to make their changes. This includes updates to the system. So, to say they take a snapshot of a defunct version of Fedora to create RHEL is absolutely, 100% patently WRONG. It was the current version of Fedora _at_the_time_the_fork_occurred_. On top of that, CentOS is no more bug ridden that the equivalent version of RHEL. Hell, they're built from the same source code. Sheesh! The apps you use may have bugs and there may be fixes to the OS and libraries. RHEL is a commercial product and if you don't pay for updates, well, that's your fault. If you run CentOS and don't enable CentOS updates (which are free), that's also your fault. Anyone using Fedora MUST remember that they are the experimental hamsters on the bleeding edge of (what WILL be) the next version of RHEL and CentOS. There are PLENTY of problems with Fedora and the bits and pieces it's built from. You may not hit them, but I'm a developer. I have. Innumerable times. I have the scars, hat and t-shirt to prove it. > Keep in mind the following rule. Every OS is "stable" > *** if *** it runs the programs you want to use properly. > And you can freeze ANY OS by turning off the updates > (like RHEL does), even buggy M$ Windows (Shut Up 10). You must SUBSCRIBE to RHEL's update channels as RHEL is a commercial OS and their updates and support don't come for free. CentOS uses the same upgrade mechanism as Fedora (dnf), is free of charge and support is community-based. Those are really the only major differences between RHEL and CentOS. And both WERE the current Fedora releases at the time of the fork to create RHEL. > So where to turn? I have converted all of my computer > and all of my computers to Fedora (all on 28 now). > I adore Fedora. They actually fix things and keep > after bugs and problems. In my experience, because > of such, Fedora is about 50 times (not exaggerating) > more stable that freeze-all-the-bugs-in-place RHEL. > > Don't use RHEL or clones (CentOS), if you want things > to be kept after. Again, you must PAY for RHEL updates. CentOS will upgrade just like Fedora if you enable it, but neither will never have the latest stuff as the newer items may not be compatible with its kernel, libraries, utilities and the like. > Oh and you will notice that your USB 2 is 4 to 5 times faster > and USB pass through actually works on qemu-kvm under Fedora > that RHEL. And you can actually use it on a modern motherboard! Oh, geeze. RHEL/CentOS are running much older (but stable) kernels so they will be slower and they don't have all the features of the newer kernels. If you think Fedora is God's gift, there have been two kernel releases on Fedora that have broken ACPI badly. There's an outstanding bug between the LightDM display manager and the pam_kwallet system that breaks privilege elevation. Fedora sure-as-hell isn't bug free. > So, pick which OS has the support you are after. > > After converting to Fedora, I had a case of the out-right-laughter > over being so tickled over all the hundreds of bugs that were fixed. > VLC even worked right! Fedora is newer and has its own bug issues. You, however, keep railing about RHEL and it's lack of bug fixes. Pay for them. Or go to CentOS and fully upgrade it and see what's what. Almost no-one running a commercial venture runs Fedora because of potential stability issues AND the fact that updates are only available for Fedora for "current release less one" (updates stopped for F26 one month after F28 came out). RHEL and CentOS generally have a 3-year or more lifespan. No, they're not current, but they ARE supported. Fedora 26 isn't, for example. F27 will be supported until one month after F29 comes out. Get it? > And the irony did not miss me that kvm is a Red Hat project > and they can't run their fixes and upgrades on RHEL either. > qemu-kvm is sweet under Fedora, but a bug riddled mess under RHEL. > > Wine Staging worked sweet under Fedora too. I'd bet most of what you're whining about is fixed under updated versions of RHEL and/or CentOS. Perhaps not all since they're based on older kernels, libraries, Python version and the like, but still I'll bet most of them are addressed. If you use Fedora, I can guarantee you WILL get bitten by bugs, lose blood and suffer data corruptions at some point. Having been a developer under Fedora since it's FC8 days (Fedora Core 8), I have seen a LOT of carnage. It is an experimental OS. While it's pretty stable and probably better than a lot of other distros, it sure isn't perfect. If it was perfect, we wouldn't need "dnf upgrade", would we? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- - Rick Stevens, Systems Engineer, AllDigital ricks@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx - - AIM/Skype: therps2 ICQ: 226437340 Yahoo: origrps2 - - - - LOOK OUT!!! BEHIND YOU!!! - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ users mailing list -- users@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Fedora Code of Conduct: https://getfedora.org/code-of-conduct.html List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx/message/T5MOLSIN65XEOYZZXTMWG3P3YJGCPZYG/
