On 09/08/2017 08:12 PM, Wolfgang Pfeiffer wrote: > On Fri, 2017-09-08 at 01:16 +0100, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote: >> On Fri, 2017-09-08 at 07:14 +0800, Ed Greshko wrote: >>> [ ... ] >>> >>> I rarely use needs-restarting. On the issue of tracer I actually >>> tried it and hate >>> it more than needs-restarting. >>> >>> As Matthew pointed out, needs-restarting is rather slow. But, at >>> least you can elect >>> to run it. With the tracer plugin it runs after every successful >>> dnf run and it is >>> no faster than needs-restarting. Additionally, I found it >>> interfered with the akmod >>> process update of nVidia drivers when the kernel was updated. >> True that it's no faster, but it does have options that can give more >> information and hints about what to do. Not in all cases though. It >> will often say "restart foo manually" and you have to investigate how >> to do that because it doesn't know, which can be a challenge when foo >> is some daemon you aren't familiar with and was originally started at >> boot time. > Exactly: It can be difficult to see which services need to be restarted, > and how they need to be restarted properly (order of restarting might > even be relevant) ... > > I'm more and more wondering why Fedora users after an upgrade are > supposed to test by **themselves** via the various plugins whether there > are services that need to be restarted in the running system, or > whether there is even a full reboot needed. > > That whole testing of services and whether their restart/reload is > needed, then actually restarting them is something the dnf installer > might be able to do by itself: Inform the user - maybe at the end of or > during an upgrade - which services need a restart: dnf: "Shall we > restart foo now: Yes or No, and if No: here's how you can do it manually > ...." > Or if a reboot is required: tell the users ... That whole procedure > looks actually like a no-brainer ... > > What did I miss? ... IMHO, it should be changed from "needs" to "should". It is often the case that processes which are already running will continue to run just fine even though they "should" be restarted to make use of the updated libraries. It isn't as cut and dry as you may think. It probably isn't a good idea to restart some processes after an update as a user may be accessing the process and restarting it in the middle may make for a bad user experience. A connection to a socket may be broken, for example. GNOME is trying to make updates more "user friendly" by doing them during the reboot phase. If you're adverse to doing reboots then you need to understand the risks, or problems, with doing things without rebooting. You are sure to find plenty of people that will object to the "Windows" philosophy that a reboot is required after every update. At least you can take comfort in that with Linux you're not exposed to updates depending or previous updates. So you won't have the "Update, reboot, update more, reboot" cycle you often see in the Windows environment. -- Fedora Users List - The place to go to speculate endlessly
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