Reindl Harald <h.reindl@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> writes: > Am 08.07.2013 20:19, schrieb lee: >>> i do not buy "you're simply lucky" after around 400 dist-upgrades >>> with yum on workstations and production servers with all sort >>> of services - i *never* rely on luck, i simply *test* and *prepare* >>> upgrades after test them carefully on clones with note all needed steps >> >> I don't have a clone of my computer around to test the upgrade process >> on. Do you have clones of all your workstations and servers which you >> upgrade first, then replace the "original" ones with them and try them >> out for six weeks to see if they work fine before upgrading the >> "originals"? > > it is easy to setup a virtual machine with any for your > wokrload critical software configured 1:1 like on the > working system and test things out A VM is very different from the computer for which an upgrade is pending. Testing in a VM might be helpful and can yield very different results, so it doesn't give you anything more than an indication. Besides, I don't find it easy at all to set one up because the networking part is extremely difficult. Even with that solved, how would I clone the system that needs to be upgraded 1:1 into a VM? I don't even have the disk space for that. > critical servers are generally on vortualization here > and in this case cloning even the production system > is easy > > hence in context of my phyiscal workstation there is > one at the office and one at home with are both > 100% clones by start both with a live-cd and mirror > the four RAID10 disks with dd/ssh to the second one > > the same works by pull 2 of the 4 RAID disks and put > them in the other machine, if it refuses to boot because > of too few disks to bring up the mirror a) you pulled > the wrong one and b) there is no change on disk, simply > put one back and take a different disk to the new syste, You're really going to extreme lengths to be able to upgrade Fedora. Do you seriously think all users need to run their systems in VMs and have two (mostly) identical computers around so they can upgrade? I guess not everybody wants this, and not everybody has the means to do this. >> Well, I can only follow the upgrade instructions. I did that last time >> and was left with a mess. >> >> Do you have some detailed documentation about how every bit of Fedora >> works which I could read before trying to upgrade again? > > finally it is a matter of expierience, playing around, testing > and learning, yes it takes time but i never re-installed any > fedora setup since FC3 and you can be sure i damaged a lot > in my beginning days Yeah I just need something where at least basic things like upgrades work. > there is no "this is the reference dokumentation" > it is a matter of learn how the basic things like initramfs, bootloader > and so on are working, Do they finally have good documentation for grub? > where they are configured, how to backup them > and how to deal with live-systems in the worst case and restore > basic things, as long the system boots there is nothing which can not > be repeaired and bring it to boot in case of errors is not easy for > the typical random-user, but it is simple with expierience > > as said: if this is not your world of working with computers > maybe siwtch to centOS or another LTS, i get paied to know > and learn anything about the systems i manage Well, nobody is paying me to keep my computer running and up to date; I'm the one paying for it. It's good for you to stick with something inherently unreliable and unpredictable because otherwise you might lose your job. It's bad for me because I would only be wasting my time and money, and I might lose my data. Your conclusion would have to be that Fedora can only reasonably be used in a professional environment like you have at your disposal and that it is totally unsuited for what they say that their user base is. -- "Object-oriented programming languages aren't completely convinced that you should be allowed to do anything with functions." http://www.joelonsoftware.com/items/2006/08/01.html -- users mailing list users@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
