Am 07.07.2013 19:21, schrieb lee: > Reindl Harald <h.reindl@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> writes: > >> Am 07.07.2013 17:53, schrieb lee: >>> If Fedora cannot be updated without major problems, it's >>> not useable. >> >> if you follow this guides *strictly* and willing to learn to deal >> wtih "package-cleanup --leaves | --problems | --orphans and >> to understand how your OS basically works you are fine >> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Upgrading_Fedora_using_yum > > When you look at the wiki, they are recommending to use fedup for > upgrades, and they are saying "Upgrading directly from one release to > the next using yum is not explicitly tested by Fedora QA"[1] and it > might work only by chance because of "packaging guidelines providing > detailed information on maintaining upgradability"[1]. They are even > saying that they don't know why it might work or not and are guessing > that it is "probably due to"[1] the packaging guidelines. yes > Considering that Fedora does not have a working (and tested and > supported) upgrade method at all, such packaging guidelines seem very > questionable. That means you're simply lucky if you manage to upgrade. > That users are quick to suggest to reinstall instead of trying to > upgrade seems to support this conclusion. i do not buy "you're simply lucky" after around 400 dist-upgrades with yum on workstations and production servers with all sort of services - i *never* rely on luck, i simply *test* and *prepare* upgrades after test them carefully on clones with note all needed steps > So we have three options to upgrade: > 1.) the recommended fedup which probably doesn't work so no benefit compared to yum > 2.) the untested and unsupported way using yum which might work or not the same for fedup > 3.) move away from Fedora and install a different distribution maybe your choice, mine is learn to understand every piece of my system >> if you want simple fire&forget upgrades and not invest time >> and energy to learn how the system basically works and what >> major changes are meaning for you in case of upgrades use >> CentOS or whatever LTS distribution > > That is a very different issue. The problem is that there apparently > isn't a working way to upgrade Fedora there is - if you know what you are doing hence i managed dependency problems often enough due upgrades and that is why i use yum - you can fix problems before upgrade and even after upgrade before reboot > Add to that that a simple 'yum update' made a severe mess, not only > basically putting the system into an unbootable state but also trying to > upgrade without even indicating that it would try this and without even > asking me if I wanted that. there doe sno upgrade happen magically > Only by examining the configuration of the boot manager I was able to > boot again. That was just luck and I could have been left stranded with > a non-bootable system. which is all fixable been there, done that > The method for upgrading you suggest is not recommended and untested and you believe a fedup-upgrade 7 weeks after new updates are pushed out is tested - who has tested it? with what combination of installed pakcages which may make a big difference in possible conflicts > It might be a great a way to do it or it might fail. That doesn't have > anything to do with learning "how the system basically works and what > major changes are meaning for" me. surely, if you know your system well you are able to verify package consistency and configuration *before* reboot and fix things if needed after yum-upgrade > Atm, I'm undecided if I even should try to upgrade or save myself the > hassle and just move on to another distribution which might be more > reliable. that has nothing to do with "reliable" Fedora *is* relieable if not i would not run more than 20 production servers with it since many years > I don't want to have problems with updating all the time, and > so far, Fedora promises to continue to give me these problems maybe it is not the right distribution *for you* if all distributions would be perfect for everyone why would we have more than one?
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