On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 08:42:57AM +0100, mike cloaked wrote: > A lot of information on how to do things in linux actually comes from > lists exactly like this one! Well, yes. As does a lot of help for Windows, and Mac... But the newbies won't see them. And they won't do the "Tour" in XP, or Vista, or 7--I've been a consultant for over 30 years, and nobody I've helped or worked with has *ever* done the Tour that they've admitted to me. They ask me, or others. They look for books; just looking on Amazon in books with the keyword "Windows" gives top choices (just picking the starter books): Windows 7 For Dummies Microsoft Operating Systems Windows 7: The Missing Manual Windows 7 Inside Out Windows 7 Step by Step Windows 7 For Seniors for Dummies And it goes on...and on...for pages. 54,050 results (although we all know what counts such as that mean, it's apples to apples for similar searches.) Now, look for Linux--again, only picking the starter books: Linux in a Nutshell Beginning Ubuntu Linux Linux for Dummies Practical Guide to Ubuntu Linux Linux All-in-One For Dummies Practical Unix/Linux (For the Rest of Us) But there are 7,391 results. Differences? Well, clearly, far fewer hits than for Windows. But qualitatively: o The first couple of pages of the Linux search show far, far more guru/kernel/CLI/development hits, fewer general-user beginner hits (I had to go more pages in to get the same count of six beginner books.) o The distro that shows up most often is Ubuntu. They're doing something right--that's getting the attention of the authors. So if they're inclined to learn about a system, most often I've been asked "Is there a book?", not "Should I take the Tour?" (well, the latter, never.) But the other problem is simple familiarity--by now, Windows 7, almost all users have gone through at least one Windows OS (XP--I'm not counting Vista); many have worked on two or more. There *is* a continuity in behavior, operation, and expectation; even Windows 7 shows its roots going back to Windows 95 in the UI. And users crave that comfortable familiarity; when trying something new, abnormal behavior will strike hardest, and frustration with what should be simple tasks will cost much more. An excellent example--just this weekend, a friend who's technologically savvy in her field (oceanographic research) and very well-inclined to Linux decided to try to install a dual-boot Ubuntu/Windows XP system. We all know that graphics support has been the bugaboo (right ahead of wireless); recent Ubuntu distros (and probably others) have gotten pretty darn good at detecting and properly setting up adapters. Unfortunately, hers wasn't one of them--so there was an immediate "Arrgh!" from her. Worse, Grub didn't properly see her USB keyboard, so now she's not able to go back to her XP installation. Sure, the Grub thing is (probably) a BIOS configuration problem--legacy USB probably needs to be turned on--but the tolerance for such problems is low in a new installation, especially with the fear of losing the current working OS installation. And yes, xrandr helped--once she reached out--and, well, let her tell it: I finally found the xwindows manager - that did recognize the Sony monitor and allowed me to change the resolution so that I can see the entire desktop. The boot problem remains. And I have a new problem... after watching me go through this, the other member of the household is not keen on this OS experiment, so I may just use that new disk I have for an XP reinstall. We noticed Ubuntu is not much faster booting or running at all than the old installation of XP.... it does shut down faster. So here's a well-disposed, intelligent but non-CS user who's actually worked through the first major problem, and has a probable solution for the second--but even so, is thinking of giving up because of those issues--partly because of pressure from others in the house, partly because she hasn't been able to get to the point of investigating the system because of "starter's unfamiliarity" and initial problems that colored the experience. We need to get more beginner docco out there--and get it to people. Maybe downloading a Linux distro results in an E-Mail to the user with a link to "How Linux is Different from Windows"--which is a video, and a text document, and maybe a downloadable E-Book--that describes what they're going to see, and how to do the same things in Linux they commonly have to do in Windows, and how to solve common installation problems--and avoids fanboi/religious rants while doing so. (No, this doesn't exist, AFAIK). Cheers, -- Dave Ihnat dihnat@xxxxxxxxxx -- users mailing list users@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines