By discouraging as long as it makes sense I meant more in terms of
that it doesn't detract or introduce uncertainty that need to be
explained
Eric Gustavsson, RHCSA
He/Him/His
Software Engineer
Red Hat
IM: Telegram: @SpyTec
E1FE 044A E0DE 127D CBCA E7C7 BD1B 8DF2 C5A1 5384
On Tue, 23 Jun 2020 at 23:22, Eric Gustavsson <egustavs@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> Raising my opinion as well. As a Swedish person, I've always
> associated whitelists as a list of things you can see, since white is
> bright.
> Likewise for blacklists as something in the darkness that you cannot see.
>
> I personally would use the same connotation as the project I'm writing about.
> If I'm writing about Redis I will write about master-replica.
> Likewise if I'm writing about something that uses whitelist/blacklist
> wording, I will use that as well.
>
> Using a different connotation than is documented is just confusing.
> I wouldn't edit the Fedora Magazine article either, even though
> allowlist/denylist 100% makes more sense in firewalld the article
> talks about it as a problem and proposes a solution - their
> firewalld-blacklist package.
> If it was to be edited across the article to mention denylist instead,
> and in the end link to a firewalld-blacklist package they created, one
> would be confused as to why it was coded with one word and released
> with a different one.
>
> I would vote for discouraging master/slave, and blacklist/whitelist as
> long as it makes sense and doesn't take away any meaning that needs to
> be explained.
>
> Having a style guide sounds great, I'm presuming something like
> codespell can correct custom words as well like RedHat,
> NetworkManager, fedora, etc.
>
> Eric Gustavsson, RHCSA
> He/Him/His
> Software Engineer
> Red Hat
> IM: Telegram: @SpyTec
> E1FE 044A E0DE 127D CBCA E7C7 BD1B 8DF2 C5A1 5384
>
>
> On Tue, 23 Jun 2020 at 23:03, Paul Frields <stickster@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >
> > On Tue, Jun 23, 2020 at 4:35 PM Ben Cotton <bcotton@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > >
> > > Several comments on yesterday's fail2ban article[1], as well as some
> > > internal Red Hat mailing list traffic, raised concern with the use of
> > > the word "blacklist". While the etymology of the term is not racist,
> > > there are reasonable arguments to be made that it can contribute to
> > > unconscious bias. Its meaning is also less obvious than alternatives
> > > like "block list".
> > >
> > > So there are two questions here:
> > >
> > > 1. Should we discourage the use of whitelist and blacklist in Fedora
> > > Magazine in favor of alternatives like "allow list" and "block
> > > list"/"deny list"?
> >
> > Yes.
> >
> > > 2. Should we start developing a style guide that addresses this and
> > > other issues (e.g. the style of projects like "NetworkManager" (not
> > > "Network Manager") and other things both malign and benign (like using
> > > the words "simple" or "just") that a style guide normally covers)?
> >
> > Yes.
> >
> > > I am in favor of both of the above.
> > >
> > > For anyone who is interested, I learned today that the latest update
> > > to the codespell package (currently in testing[2]) can flag some of
> > > these issues:
> > > codespell --builtin clear,rare,usage <filename>
> >
> > I had no idea this exists and that's awesome.
> >
> > Frankly, 'allowlist'/'denylist' makes way more sense anyway. It
> > doesn't force people using some other languages to figure out a weird
> > etymology. And it has precedent (/etc/hosts.{allow,deny}).
> >
> > Can we fix the article that's out there now?
> >
> > --
> > Paul
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