I don't think anyone suggesting an additional service or cost. AIUI there is already a Fedora discussion server and we could use that if desired. On Tue, Jun 2, 2020, 6:42 AM Michael Scherer <mscherer@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > Le lundi 01 juin 2020 à 10:45 +0200, Adam Samalik a écrit : > > So I've read all the comments and I feel there are a few people for > > the > > move and no one clearly against. But we have some concerns or > > undecided, too. > > > > Some of the pros are that a forum is more accessible and feels more > > inclusive and open to newcomers. There were also comments about > > mailing > > lists being seen as confusing or even archaic. > > Personally, my concern with discourse is that while that's much better > for new comers (there is a tutorial, there is richer text edit which > permit more way to express one self, etc), anything requiring to go on > a web page is likely less efficient than a rich email client, due to > network latency among others, but also because I can run 1 client and > access several projects discussion at once, while I would need to check > several discourses with the risk of forgetting one otherwise. > > However, I know there is a way to be notified by mail (the so called > "mailing list mode" in "preferences"/"email"), and while I didn't tried > it (yet), I do assume that the worst that would happen with it wouldn't > be different than a discussion on a bugzilla/pagure/github ticket. So > it would solve part of the problem of being able to watch over several > discussions in a efficient way (still no way to efficiently answer, but > I never participate here, just watch for things around hosting, so we > wouldn't lose much by a move). > > > > Now, as a side note, before moving anything, I would also go see > whoever pay for the instance and verify that there is enough capacity > on the service (based on current traffic estimation), and if not, see > if we have budget for it. > > I do not know how much we pay now and/or the traffic, but if we pay 100 > US$ per month, the next step is 300 US$ per month (so a 2400 US$ > increase in the budget). And if we are already at the 300 US$ step, the > next one is "call us": > https://www.discourse.org/pricing > > > However, looking at > https://budget.fedoraproject.org/budget/fy19/council.html , it seems we > are already in the upper tier. > > > > Some of you just like the idea of consolidation of our channels and > > are for > > the change for this reason. > > > > Also, we had some confusion about new creating accounts or proposing > > other > > self-hosting alternatives. I'm only proposing Discourse because > > Fedora > > already has one, and it works with the Fedora account system: > > https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/ So there are no new accounts > > involved, and we won't be deploying yet another service, just using > > what's > > already available. > > > > And then there was one concern about this proposal not solving the > > problem > > with having Pagure separated. And while I kind of agree it's not > > solving > > the disconnect directly, I believe that moving all the discussions > > into one > > place helps people see the proposals and engage with them more. And > > yes, > > we'll still need to make a card for each article, but it will be > > easier to > > just see it and do it. Or we can ask the person proposing the idea to > > create the card and link back to the discussion. I think that just > > the fact > > of it being more visible helps. And the reason I propose moving to > > Discourse (rather than using the mailing list for this) is the > > accessibility and the ability to easily link to the discussion. > > > > I realize it's not a perfect solution, but I think it's the best > > reasonable > > option we have. We're basically choosing between the following three > > solutions: > > > > 1/ Keep what we have now. Proposals in Pagure, general discussion on > > the > > list, tracking in Taiga. > > 2/ Proposals AND general discussion in Discourse, tracking in Taiga. > > 3/ The same as 2, but using a mailing list. So proposals and > > discussion on > > the list, and tracking in Taiga. > > > > Options 2 and 3 have all the discussions in one place — being it > > proposals > > or anything else. But what I propose, option 2, is to have a place > > that's > > more accessible, more open to newcomers or casual contributors, and > > easy to > > link to. > > > > And even if we somehow automated the process of creating Taiga cards > > from > > Pagure, or moved the proposals directly to Taiga, we'd still had > > discussion > > on two different places, keeping the engagement on the proposals > > quite low > > as we have it now. > > > > > > So, to move forward, are there people strongly against? Especially > > those of > > you who are concerned. Or are we willing to give this a shot? > > > > On Mon, Jun 1, 2020 at 9:25 AM Clement Verna < > > cverna@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, 27 May 2020 at 16:15, Adam Samalik <asamalik@xxxxxxxxxx> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > What if we moved to Discourse [1]? > > > > > > > > We touched this during today's meeting [2] towards the end. > > > > > > > > Right now we have various things in three different places: > > > > 1/ This mailing list for general discussion > > > > 2/ Pagure repository [3] for article proposals and discussion > > > > around those > > > > 3/ Taiga board [4] to track the editorial workflow > > > > > > > > Discourse would replace this mailing list and the Pagure > > > > repository, so > > > > we'd have one place to discuss anything. And unlike a mailing > > > > list, we > > > > could link to individual threads easily, new members could join > > > > us and see > > > > all the previous discussions, etc. > > > > > > > > I especially like this for article proposals. More people would > > > > be able to > > > > see them and comment on them, and after a proposal gets approved > > > > we could > > > > easily link the thread from the Taiga card. > > > > > > > > Back in 2017-1018, the Forman community did a similar move [5] > > > > [6] and > > > > their engagement doubled. But it's a different community and a > > > > few years > > > > back, so it doesn't promise anything to us. But I still find it > > > > interesting. > > > > > > > > What do people think? > > > > > > > > > > I am generally +1 to move to discourse but I also don't participate > > > that > > > much in this mailing list :-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > Adam > > > > > > > > [1] https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/ > > > > [2] > > > > > > > > > https://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2020-05-27/magazine.2020-05-27-12.01.log.html > > > > [3] https://pagure.io/fedora-magazine-proposals/issues > > > > [4] > > > > > https://teams.fedoraproject.org/project/asamalik-fedora-magazine/kanban > > > > [5] > > > > https://theforeman.org/2017/12/foreman-migrates-to-discourse.html > > > > [6] > > > > > https://theforeman.org/2018/07/discourse-6-months-on-impact-assesment.html > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > Adam Šamalík > > > > --------------------------- > > > > Senior Software Engineer > > > > Red Hat > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Fedora Magazine mailing list -- magazine@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > > > > To unsubscribe send an email to > > > > magazine-leave@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > > > > Fedora Code of Conduct: > > > > https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ > > > > List Guidelines: > > > > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines > > > > List Archives: > > > > > https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/magazine@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Adam Šamalík > > --------------------------- > > Senior Software Engineer > > Red Hat > > _______________________________________________ > > Fedora Magazine mailing list -- magazine@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > > To unsubscribe send an email to > > magazine-leave@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > > Fedora Code of Conduct: > > https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ > > List Guidelines: > > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines > > List Archives: > > > https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/magazine@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > -- > Michael Scherer / He/Il/Er/Él > Sysadmin, Community Infrastructure > > > > _______________________________________________ > Fedora Magazine mailing list -- magazine@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > To unsubscribe send an email to magazine-leave@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > Fedora Code of Conduct: > https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ > List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines > List Archives: > https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/magazine@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > _______________________________________________ Fedora Magazine mailing list -- magazine@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx To unsubscribe send an email to magazine-leave@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/magazine@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
