On Fri, Sep 11, 2015 at 6:09 PM, Victor Costan <costan@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: > On Fri, Sep 11, 2015 at 12:59 PM, Adam Miller > <maxamillion@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: >> >> I'm pretty neutral on B or C. I don't really care and also don't think it >> should even remotely be a concern of ours. Not only do we not have >> testing for it but we don't even have the building blocks in place to >> work towards testing it. VirtualBox is bad and those who use it should >> feel bad.[0] > > > I think this attitude is detrimental to advancing Fedora's vision [1], > particularly the "widespread" in "free culture is welcoming and widespread", > and I will explain my reasoning below. > >> >> This is probably not a popular opinion and I'm fine with that, but we >> would have to install something that we very publicly speak out >> against in order to test this. I'm not yet ready to throw out Fedora's >> values for the sake of some OS X user's convenience but that's just >> me. >> >> -AdamM >> >> [0] - https://lkml.org/lkml/2011/10/6/317 > > > This paragraph dismisses a lot of complex realities as "some OS X user's > convenience". > > First, I have little control over what my collaborators use, and I have a > hard requirement that I have to be able to work with them. Vagrant and > VirtualBox are the lesser evil I could find that lets my collaborators > quickly build a Fedora staging environment on their computers, and this is a > hard requirement for being able to use Fedora in production. VirtualBox > might be crappy code, so it violates the "First" core value [2], but unlike > the altrenatives, at least it doesn't violate "Freedom". > > Second, a user that is interested in Fedora's Vagrant images *wants* to > deploy Fedora somewhere. I wouldn't care about the Vagrant images if I > wouldn't plan to have Fedora in my production system. If I can run Fedora in > Vagrant, using VirtualBox, on an OS X development machine, then I'll end up > deploying it to many VMs or physical boxes, when I ship my software. > > For a multitude of non-trivial but boring reasons, I am stuck using OS X on > my dev machine for the near future. I use Fedora 22 in production, however, > meaning that I installed it on ~10 physical / virtual machines, and that > most of my computation happens on a Fedora machine. The Vagrant VirtualBox > image for Fedora 23 is currently broken, and until that gets resolved, I > won't be able to switch my projects to Fedora 23. > > I really, really want to use Fedora. However, if it ever gets too painful, > I'll have to switch away. In that case, my collaborators will not be exposed > to Fedora at all anymore, and my computation will be handled by something > else. > > Please don't dismiss people like me. I think that network effects will lose > you more users than you think. It would be great if you'd read the entire thread. I've admitted I was wrong and apologized for it multiple times. -AdamM > > Victor Costan > > [1] - https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Vision_statement > [2] - https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Foundations > > _______________________________________________ > cloud mailing list > cloud@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/cloud > Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct > _______________________________________________ cloud mailing list cloud@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/cloud Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
