Re: giving people credit for their work

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On 05/04/2020 19:12, Chris Punches wrote:
> Daniel,
> This will be my last post before migrating everything over to a new
> email address for my new LLC and revising which mailing lists I
> participate in, and how much and why.

Thanks for taking the time to contribute

> First, I completely understand what you're talking about regarding group
> harassment, shadow-banning, general repression of folks' work, etc, but
> I haven't seen a great deal of that in the Fedora community.  That's
> actually one of the reasons I came to Fedora and continue to support
> it's efforts where I can or when I have time.
> You have no idea the kind of lies I've seen told about me by petty
> trolls in the F/OSS space, generally in other older distro spaces. *I
> completely get this*, and yes, it's a rampant problem in the broader
> community.
> I....I sympathize a great deal with what you're working out, and I went
> through a phase myself where I was struggling a bit in processing it,
> and wanted the whole world to know about it to defend my reputation.  I

Clarification: this isn't about defending my reputation

Chris Lamb started subjecting me to these experiments in September 2018,
without my consent.  If Lamb had to get authorization from an ethics
committee, shaming a volunteer at a time of grief, I'm pretty sure this
experiment would have been rejected.


I only spoke up months later, after noticing another Debian Developer
had been subjected to the same unethical experiments.

My concern is not for my own reputation.  I hope that my work speaks for
itself.  I would gladly defend other volunteers even if it risked my own
reputation.  My concern is for other developers, in any community, who
are being blackmailed or exposed to abuse.  Volunteers who may be
feeling so bad right now that they are hurting themselves.

The death of Lucy Wayland is an example.  I can't help wondering if
Wayland would still be alive today without the Debian Christmas
lynchings.  These lynchings take energy from everybody, not just the

> At the same time, he's absolutely right, we can't be too involved in
> what Debian does in this context because it's a Fedora-centered mailing
> list.

The Pagure ticket says that there is a communication "From Debian" and
now my blog is censored.  Nobody will show me that communication.

I felt bad reading the emails from Matt Miller.  It feels like he has
ignored the long history of shamings in Debian and censored my blog too

If Fedora wants to exclude all political blogs and that policy applies
to everybody equally, go right ahead.  I can respect that and will agree
to only tag such material for Planet Fedora.

> Again, I just want to reiterate how much I empathize and agree with what
> you're railing against and how much I want to help you -- you're RIGHT,
> and people don't say this enough, you are RIGHT, but there is a clear
> difference between the objective reality we share and the subjective
> reality that is aggregately experienced by people in groups -- and they
> do not align well in situations like that, and you definitely cannot
> beat the latter.  You can influence it.
> All of that said, and this is to the other readers -- is there any merit
> to his allegation of complaints made in secret where no neutral
> determination of facts is executed where he's given a chance to present
> his side/defense?  If so, I would like to know more details as it will
> affect future levels of contribution.

If Fedora wants to provide the best possible experience for volunteers,
then I feel it is important to provide a neutral and independent way to
address these issues, as you suggest.


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