Re: A new vision statement for Fedora

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On January 16, 2020 4:37:34 PM EST, Matthew Miller <mattdm@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>On Wed, Jan 15, 2020 at 01:11:45PM -0500, Máirín Duffy wrote:

>> I would suggest a statement here that focuses more on the world we
>want to
>> be in (that our work will help us create) rather than just narrowly
>on the
>> tech within it eg
>> "We envision people around the world enjoying betterment across every
>> of life touched by technology, driven by free and open source
>Hmmmm -- doesn't that go *more* to talking about the tech?

It doesn't - the technology is relegated to a means / a touch whereas the main subject is people's lives improving. (And the unsaid thing which we've probably said elsewhere is how open source is uniquely positioned to do that, privacy, innovation, standards / compat, better tech, etc.)

> And, also,
>worried that it goes too far outside the scope of what we're actually
>to impact. "Every area of life touched by technology" is... a lot.

A vision statement should not be a statement of scope - that's the mission statement. The vision statement is a statement of direction and purpose. *We* aren't the only actors so making a world the way we envision it isn't all on us. It's the dream that drives us and helps us figure out which way to go esp. if we hit a turn. 

>> "In this world, software is built by communities that are inclusive,
>> welcoming, and encourage experimentation."
>> So this hits on the project vs. community issue. The first sentence
>> focused more on the project / software. This sentence, in contrast,
>> focuses on the community. Is this full statement meant primarily to
>> the project, or the management of the community, or both?
>> I also understand the importance of inclusivity, being welcoming etc.
>> the way it's brought up here it comes across as a chore or a finger
>wag or
>> a check list. Plus inclusivity, welcoming, etc are a means to an end
>> the end. You're supposed to talk abt the end in a vision statement,
>Oh! To me, this _is_ about the end. I want a world of software that's
>by healthy collaborative communities — to me, that's a goal in itself.
>("Friends" is as fundamental a value as "Features" or "Freedom".)

But being welcoming and inclusive isnt the end if the community still isnt diverse (and I would argue that is where we are now.... making strides towards a diverse community ansolutely but not where I think we'd see ourselves in an ideal vision right?) I'd argue diversity is the end, and welcoming / inclusivity / etc is how you get there. Doesn't mean they get tossed out the window - same as w accessibility and usability - they're required as a matter of course for the end so you don't need to explicitly call them out.
>> I'm also not sure I agree with it. Is *all* software *only* built by
>> *communities*? What is a community exactly? If it's not a company, I
>> disagree because while I think open communities are great at
>> some things in software there are other things (like support) they're
>> too good at. You know? And I think the solution is to rephrase in a
>> that doesnt invite that line of questioning / debate bc that shouldnt
>> the point.
>I think our employer shows that this doesn't have to be a dichotomy.
>Software can be built by communities and companies can be participants
>those communities. There are _some_ aspects of support where a company
>standing behind a product is vital, but there are other areas of
>where an active, engaged community of helpers is objectively better.

Right but my point wasnt whether or not a company can be part of a community - my point was community is a term that invites that line of argument / spiral - you even took the bait lol when I was just bringing it up in meta. It's probably better to just sidestep it by rephrasing in a way where such esoteric questions don't come up - bc those q's focus on the implementation and the how, not the what we want to achieve...

And the vision of the community shouldnt be to be a community... 

>> "Diverse communities of people will participate in creation of this
>> software, in an immersive culture of experimentation, collaboration,
>> sincere camaraderie."
>I like some of where you're going with this, I'd like something
>than "participate".

s/participate in the creation of this software/create this software    ??

Thanks for going thru everyone's feedback and taking the time to respond. It's more fulfilling to take the time to review & reflect & and share when it's clear it's being read and considered. :-)

Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
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