I am outraged by this as well. gnokii is an extremely productive senior member of the design team, and he continues to contribute and mentor other designers effectively even with his challenging internet situation and timezone differences. There recently was a meeting in one of the #fedora-meeting channels that I *needed* him to attend because I wanted his design advice, and I came to find out then that he could not because of this ban, which seems to be based on a personal pet peeve and not any intentional bad behavior on gnokii's part at all. The feifdom of #fedora is one thing, because it at least does not impede on contributors' basic workflows and getting things done. But to ban a productive, active contribuor from *all* meeting channels (where contributors get work done) because - essentially - they live in a third world country is problematic on a number of levels. This would be akin to a Red Hat facilities person banning me from entering any Red Hat conference rooms in my office because they were annoyed that I wore noisy high heel shoes and they dont like the click clack sound. The productive contributor base channels on freenode should *not* be opped in the same manner as #fedora; I believe commops would be a better fit for the governance of general contributor channels like the #fedora-meeting channels because they are a contributor focused organization and managing contributors is not the same as managing end users. And individual team channels like #fedora-design should be opped by those team leaders and not the irc sig. If we had the same rules that governed #fedora for #fedora-design, we'd have no contributors... many of the designers we recruit have their very first encounter with IRC through our team, and they don't know anything about join/part messages or configuring proxies (not an option for everyone! Even if we offered such a service it's a challenge to configure as my interns learned this summer) and they honestly shouldn't have to worry about these things at all. When Hubs is deployed, we're going to have integrated chat based on fedora's IRC channels. As a result, a lot more non technical users without any IRC experience are going to be using our channels. We are trying to shield them from a lot of this drama via the UX design. The thing is, we *want* these people to join us. We *need* their perspective and their talents and their skills. I get the feeling this isn't a shared goal. Until we solve that fundamental disconnect, and work together to welcome new people into our community, this problem is going to persist. And when Hubs is deployed, it may get worst depending on how we choose to move forward here. And, btw, we're never going to get new mods to run a channel when any potential new contributors are chased away by rudeness and any potential exisiting contributors have also been mistreated and warn others away from getting involved. So the problem *cannot* be solved with more manpower. I recognize there have been many heroic and thankless efforts to clean it up including introducing the ticket system but after 6+ years of that, if someone like Bee can't get some friendly technical help and has an almost identical experience to my last one in 2010 (right down to the ticket filing and meeting) it's clearly not working. IRC op privs should *not* be awarded like a badge of honor. Telling someone to back off but letting them keep the privileges is wrong. Ops are *not* a status symbol they are a responsibility and if you can't handle it you shouldn't have it. Banning gnokii from the meeting channels? Irresponsible. ~m ------- Original Message ---------- But being banned from the meeting channel or as FAmSCo member from ambassadors is an outrage. _______________________________________________ council-discuss mailing list council-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct https://lists.fedoraproject.org/admin/lists/council-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx The Fedora Project's mission is to lead the advancement of free and open source software and content as a collaborative community.
