Anno domini 2024 Sat, 18 May 19:51:31 -0500 Darrell Anderson via tde-users scripsit: > On 5/18/24 3:06 PM, Chris M via tde-users wrote: > > On Fri, 2024-05-17 at 11:19 -0500, Chris M wrote: > >> In regards to Nik's post about The Orgins of KDE: > >> > >> I am curious to know what's the backstory on TDE? > >> Why is KDE 3.5 being kept alive all of these years later? > >> And what is TDE's Purpose? > >> > >> I LOOOOOOOVED KDE 3.5 back in the day, but , I could never get KDE 3 > >> to work right on my machine, like making it see the CDROM etc. > >> But, when I found GNOME2 on Ubuntu 10.10 that became my home, then > >> Unity, and KDE 5 for a little while, TDE for about a week, and MATE > >> for the longest. And now im back to trying TDE. > >> > > > > The reason that I asked this question yesterday, is because, I LOVED > > KDE 3, but i'm scared to run TDE. > > > > I've been reading on Reddit about TDE and read about how NO Linux > > distro will carry TDE because its a liability > > due to some kind of " Internet Stacks" still using KDE 3 code, and how > > unsafe it is, and how running TDE would be like > > connecting a Windows 98 PC to the internet without a firewall etc. > > What's the backstory? The best person to ask is Timothy Pearson. He > forked KDE 3.5 to TDE. The first release was TDE 3.5.11, then 3.5.12, > and 3.5.13. There never was a 3.5.14 release, instead the first of the > R14 series was released. > > The Wikipedia article has a short but fair summary of the history. Not > mentioned in the article are reasons why the original core group of > developers and maintainers stuck together. One of the reasons is the > changes from Qt3 to Qt4. Most if not all of the core group did not like > the look-and-feel of Qt4 -- the beginning of flat interfaces and dull > colors. The technical members of the group did not like the way Qt4 > functioned. There was some discussion about migrating TDE to Qt4, but > the technical effort would have been too much. There was effort to > provide some support for Qt4, somewhat part of the original reason > behind the tqtinterface package. > > With the so-called EOL of KDE 3.5 and the premature release of KDE 4, > the main backstory is a notable amount of contempt, hatred, distrust, > and anger among satisfied KDE 3.5 users. > > For a few years TDE had some news coverage and then most of the > click-bait news folks stop following TDE. There also was a couple of > periods with little TDE development and hence, little news coverage. > > Through the years I have read many pundits declare that somehow TDE is > not secure. I doubt anybody will offer an argument that Konqueror as a > web browser is secure, but just about any web browser can be reasonably > secure by disabling JavaShit -- oops -- JavaScript and other modern data > mining and tracking "features." On the same note, I don't think anybody > has designed a file manager that is in the same class as Konqueror. KDE > Dolphin is a fine file manager, but not in the same class. > > Throughout the years of reading such claims about security, I have yet > to read anybody actually auditing code to show how valid their claims > might be. There is very much a prevailing attitude that Qt3 itself no > longer is secure, mostly because Qt3 is not new and shiny. > > With respect to why distro maintainers do not offer TDE as a primary > desktop, there is significant political inertia with both KDE and GNOME. > Always has been. Embracing TDE would be seen by some as kicking sand in > the face of KDE developers. > > The Xfce and MATE folks often get included in distros, but there has to > be somebody willing to maintain the packages. The TDE developers do a > decent job creating distro packages, but many distro maintainers still > do not offer TDE as part of their mainstream collection. > > Possibly why TDE falters some with mainstream adoption is TDE remains > somewhat a black sheep. One reason is 14 years later, long after all of > the spitting and feuding ended, TDE remains a usable and viable desktop > and keeps improving. Most people predicted TDE would fade away, much > like a lot of free/libre software. Many folks do not like that TDE > remains healthy. Many do not like that TDE retains a somewhat old school > traditional desktop design rather than everything acting like a smart > phone or tablet. > > Another reason for the black sheep label is living in /opt purgatory. > TDE is not easily installed into the common /usr directory because of > potential conflict with KDE. The MATE folks resolved that problem nicely > by renaming all of their binaries with a "mate-" prefix. I think TDE > could do likewise with a tde- prefix. Installing TDE in /opt creates > various issues and the complexity of the starttde shell script attests > to the hoops to jump through to avoid conflict. > > There remains a strong following of other desktop environments despite > the political popularity of KDE and GNOME. I think TDE could gain > similar momentum enjoyed by Xfce and MATE. Much like why many to most > TDE users prefer TDE rather than KDE, Xfce and MATE users are former > GNOME users who dislike what happened to GNOME. One challenge is there > are many more KDE developers who can create and offer new kinds of > software. A rebuttal to that notion is many people using "old school" > software have little to no need or desire for such software. > > I think the Xfce and MATE developers made one mistake. Rather than > maintain GTK 2 they adopted GTK 3 and their software suffers because > they do not control GTK development. To the TDE developers credit they > did not make the same mistake. I used both Xfce and MATE for a few > years, but adopting GTK3 nonsense ended my dance with them. > > I use KDE 5 and TDE. I invested serious sweat equity to trim KDE 5 to > essentials, much like TDE. KDE 5 can be tamed but most people are not > going to invest such effort. For me, one of the cornerstones was being > able to continue using the Oxygen icon theme. Seems the KDE developers > have been trying hard for a long time to abandon Oxygen preferring the > new fad of flat icons. I use Oxygen with both KDE and TDE and that helps > provide me a consistent environment with both. > > I stopped having any hopes for KDE 4 the day Akonadi was forced on PIM > users. I still refuse to use KDE PIM tools except for KAlarm, where the > maintainer sanely changed Akonadi to a plugin. > > I do not know how long I will continue using KDE. I have seen changes > from 5 to 6 that remind me of the 3.5 to 4 days. For example, the KDE > developers ripped support from the System Settings to fine tune mouse > settings, somehow believing that every user now uses libinput. > > With respect to response, I find KDE 5 reasonably snappy, unlike KDE 4. > Yet TDE is wicked fast compared to KDE 5. I think that feature is > something that could sell TDE to many people. TDE seems ideal to keep a > lot of dual core systems functional. Helping with that are little things > such as preloading Konqueror. I still scratch my head that after a > decade and a half the KDE folks still do not preload Dolphin. > > I never grew warm and fuzzy about KDE 4, but mostly I am content with > what KDE 5 has become. Unlike the KDE 4 days, I stopped my feuding with > KDE. A new breed of developers took over from the uncomfortable KDE 4 > days and this new breed of developers are much better listening to users. > > TDE has a place in the free/libre world. Secure? Probably. Fast? > Undoubtedly. Functional and useful? Yes. All of those are good reasons > to keep TDE alive. Kind of like the old John Cameron Swayze Timex > advertisements of "takes a licking and keeps on ticking." I guess I am > showing my age. Possibly the biggest draw for me is I am an old fart and > I detest change for the sake of change. Might explain why I drive a 36 > year old pickup truck and a 21 year old car. Plus ca change, plus c'est > la meme chose. > > TDE is nothing like Windows 98. Firewalls belong at the edge of a LAN or > are an operating system function rather than as a desktop function. Good writeup :) You don't by cance remember where the kdesktop window coriginates from from? Nik > > ____________________________________________________ > tde-users mailing list -- users@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > Web mail archive available at https://mail.trinitydesktop.org/mailman3/hyperkitty/list/users@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > -- Please do not email me anything that you are not comfortable also sharing with the NSA, CIA ... ____________________________________________________ tde-users mailing list -- users@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Web mail archive available at https://mail.trinitydesktop.org/mailman3/hyperkitty/list/users@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
