Re: Dropping SysV init script support? (was: systemd prerelease 254-rc3)

[Lennart Poettering <lennart@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

On Mo, 07.08.23 16:24, Tomasz Pala (gotar@xxxxxxxxxx) wrote:

> > or to turn this around: this is only the way how people get off their
> > asses and port the stuff over apparently. Nothing else worked for them.
>
> - nothing was truly done to make this happen.

Well, what do you expect us to do? Patch cisco software ourselves?

> Before removing the SysV-compat glue entirely, there should be
> transition period.
>
> 0. systemd implements SysV-compat disable knob,

We do since about forever.

> 1. distributions use SysV-disabled by default, allowing users to switch
>    it on when needed, therefore it's impact is reduced, but notes
>    taken,

This is outside of our control.

> 2. systemd enables some irritating behavior for SysV-enabled systems,
>    like 30 second sleep with console beeping or rotating the screen
>    upside down,

We do log about this loudly, even with emojis since a while.

I am pretty sure this should suffice.

> 3. systemd removes SysV-compat entirely.

We aren't removing it yet. We are just telling people that we
will. For those living under a rock.

> The point is - people don't follow any NEWS, Warnings nor logs, and
> then, after some update, they're in a revert-or-die situation.
>
> It's not their fault - no everyone is sysadm, people just want to use
> some random packages provided by their vendors.
>
> Gradual transition needs to be stimulated, otherwise you end up with
> some boycottsystemd rants. Just-remove approach is nice for programmers,
> but contradicts the least-surprise principle without regular users being
> warned in step-by-step escalation.

We didn't "just remove" it btw. We just announced that we'll remove it.

We are letting people know that this will go away. Distro maintainers
are part of the intended audience of NEWS. They hopefully have noticed
this now, and will forward the pressure on the holdouts.

It seems to me you are complaining that we are announcing the removal
ahead of time telling us to announce this ahead of time. Which doesn't
make much sense to me.

Consider this NEWS file entry your "stimulation" to transition the
holdouts.

Lennart

--
Lennart Poettering, Berlin