On Thu, 2022-04-07 at 10:39 +0100, Luca Boccassi wrote: > On Wed, 2022-04-06 at 08:39 -0400, Neal Gompa wrote: > > On Wed, Apr 6, 2022 at 8:07 AM Luca Boccassi <luca.boccassi@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: > > > > > > On Wed, 2022-04-06 at 06:51 -0400, Neal Gompa wrote: > > > > On Wed, Apr 6, 2022 at 6:45 AM Luca Boccassi <luca.boccassi@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, 2022-04-06 at 08:05 +0200, Ulrich Windl wrote: > > > > > > > > > Luca Boccassi <luca.boccassi@xxxxxxxxx> schrieb am 05.04.2022 > > > > > > > > > um 22:07 in > > > > > > Nachricht <05cf10d04274dcbff07fed88e98dca2eebb24b7d.camel@xxxxxxxxx>: > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As part of our spring cleaning effort, we are considering when to > > > > > > > drop > > > > > > > support for split/unmerged-usr filesystem layouts. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A build-time warning was added last year: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://github.com/systemd/systemd/commit/9afd5e7b975e8051c011ff9c07c95e80bd > > > > > > > 954469 > > > > > > > > > > > > Honestly to me the requirement that /usr be part of the root > > > > > > filesystem never had a reasonable argument. > > > > > > Instead I think systemd quit the concept of a simple scaled-down > > > > > > subset to bring up the system. > > > > > > Also with initrd/dracut the concept is even more odd, because the > > > > > > /usr found there is just some arbitrary subset of the real /usr > > > > > > (similar for other filesystems). > > > > > > So why couldn't that work with a really scaled-down /sbin? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We are now adding a runtime taint as well. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Which distributions are left running with systemd on a > > > > > > > split/unmerged- > > > > > > > usr system? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (reminder: we refer to a system that boots without a populated /usr > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > split-usr, and a system where bin, sbin and lib* are not symlinks > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > their counterparts under /usr as unmerged-usr) > > > > > > > > > > > > Symlinking /sbin or /usr/sbin binaries to /usr is also a bad concept > > > > > > IMHO. > > > > > > > > > > > > It seems systemd is the new Microsoft ("We know what is good for you; > > > > > > just accept it!") ;-) > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > Ulrich > > > > > > > > > > Sorry, but you are about ~10 years late to this debate :-) The question > > > > > today is not whether it's good or bad, but who's left to do the switch. > > > > > > > > > > We know Fedora/RHEL/CentOS/SUSE/Arch/Ubuntu have done the switch, and > > > > > presumably any of their derivatives. > > > > > > > > > > We know Debian is, er, working on it, as per the most recent article on > > > > > LWN. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Debian is expected to complete this with Debian 12, I believe. > > > > > > Yeah it's, uhm, complicated :-) Working on it... > > > > > > > > What about other distros that are not derivatives of the aboves and > > > > > that use systemd? Does anybody have any insight? > > > > > > > > > > > > > OpenMandriva and Yocto both haven't done the switch yet, as far as I'm > > > > aware. Might be worth reaching out to them and finding out when > > > > they're going to do it. > > > > > > Thanks, I'm not familiar with OpenMandriva at all, is anyone here? Any > > > pointers on where to reach out to? > > > > > > > You could try filing an issue here: > > https://github.com/OpenMandrivaAssociation/distribution > > > > Alternatively, I believe Bernhard Rosenkraenzer (berolinux on GitHub) > > is someone to reach out to. He does a lot of OpenMandriva > > architectural work. > > Thank you, opened an issue: > > https://github.com/OpenMandrivaAssociation/distribution/issues/2792 Good news, the migration to usr-merged is scheduled for OpenMandriva 5.0: https://github.com/OpenMandrivaAssociation/distribution/issues/2792#issuecomment-1092605536 -- Kind regards, Luca Boccassi
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