Re: Antw: Re: systemd-devel listed as support confuses users (was: connection failure)

[Lennart Poettering <lennart@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

On Mi, 03.07.19 08:37, Ulrich Windl (Ulrich.Windl@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx) wrote:

> >> I agree here. While we do have `support-url` which distros can
> >> override, Apparently not all of them do.
> >> We could probably change our build system, that `support-url` needs to
> >> be set explicitly and if unset, no Support URL is printed in the
> >> journal output.
> >
> > This, or since the URL leads to [0], it would be also useful to extend
> > the "About systemd-devel" section to provide some kind of warning that
> > this ML is mainly/only for upstream systemd, not for systemd shipped by
> > distributions.
> >
> > [0] https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/systemd-devel
>
> The really annoying thing with systemd is that if SOMETHING fails during boot,
> the complete boot is aborted and you are put into an emergency
> shell.

This is not really the case. Only stuff that has a Requires=
dependency from basic.targe/sysinit.target/local-fs.target will cause
the boot to fail. Most services except the most essential are not
marked with Requires=, but use Wants=.

systemd gives you precise control what is required and what just shall
be started through this. If your distro or your admin use that
incorrectly, pleas work with them to fix that.

> Combined
> with the fact that the user sees nothing while systemd waits for something
> (like 3 minutes) the user does not know (because he does not see
> anything on

That's not true. You see the "eye of ceylon" animation on the console
with info what is being waited for. Maybe you use a bootsplash that
turns that off? Talk to you distro. And the eye of ceylong animation
has been in place since a long long time.

> the console) gives the impression that the system "hangs". This is true at
> least for SLES 12.

Hm, isn't SLES 12 like 5 years old by now? Maybe upgrade to something
less archaic?

> To make systemd better, you really have to listen to the users' problems and
> actually MAKE IT BETTER.

Maybe it is already a lot better, but we can't change your five year
old distro as upstream project?

Lennart

--
Lennart Poettering, Berlin
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