hike wrote: > On Tue, May 19, 2009 at 11:35 AM, mark <m.roth2006@xxxxxxx> wrote: >> George Magklaras wrote: >>> mark wrote: >>> >>>> Let's also not forget that consultant rates are higher than employee >>>> pay rates, *and* there's the loading for the consulting co itself; the >>>> >> result >>>> is that it costs a company *more* for a consultant than for an >>>> employee. >>>> >>> I swear I did not want to get into this but I can't :-) . Consultants do >>> cost more than employ rates, but every descent non corrupt management >> (from >>> the technical lead to the Director or whatever) makes a decision to >> employ a >>> consultant to either stop the company from loosing money or jumpstart >>> the company to higher earnings. Capable consultants do not just cost >>> more, >> they >>> bring more value. If the opposite happens, management is either corrupt, >>> clueless or contracts did not have clauses to role over bad >>> consultants. >> *sigh* First, the arguments I've heard for consultants include the idea >> that "it's easier to get rid of them than a Real Employee". >> >> And I've worked as both an employee and as a consultant. I've usually been >> considered valued. How would *I* "bring more value" as a consultant than >> as an employee? Or, for that matter, trust me, I've seen consultants I >> *really* didn't want to be working on systems or code. >> >> It seems to me that there *is* too much willfully ignorant management >> (along with Dilbert's Pointy-Haired Boss, and along with, apparently, 90% >> or so of HR) who have no idea of what the people who work for them do (it >> all falls under the heading of "a miracle occurs here", and trust me, >> several times, I've been that miracle, and the hours that it took...). >> >> Of course, it *is* those (as a buddy of mine likes to put it) clue-hostile >> managers who *don't* get rid of the bad employees *or* consultants, and >> confuse salary/rate with quality. <snip> >>> (Ex consultant, current employee :-) ) >> mark, currently between positions :-((( >> >> -- redhat-list mailing list unsubscribe >> mailto:redhat-list-request@xxxxxxxxxx?subject=unsubscribe >> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/redhat-list >> > > > how do you bring more value as a consultant over an employee? > > (1) as highly paid experts, consultants are listened to and their advice is > listened to; the employee is just "overhead". rember, a memorized O'Reilly > book is worth more than a Ph.D. any day. ROTFLMAO!!! Sorry, but I, and most other consultants I know, get listened to once in a while; in general, we do what our manager tells us to do. Except in a *truly* management clusterf*ck, I've not seen a consultant offer better advice, though I have, once or twice, seen one listened to when an employee who said the same thing was ignored. > (2) as a consultant, you can leave any time you want; as "overhead", the employee > can be tossed out like waste paper. Huh? Sorry, dunno where you've been but where I've worked, it's the other way around - it's the consultant who can be told "bye-bye" without a second thought. (And that includes tiny companies like Ameritech (former Baby Bell) and AT&T.) >(3) as a consultant, you have a "contract" and can't be screwed-with; > as an employee, you are a control-freak's plaything. What? That's not been the case anywhere I've worked, nor what I've heard from most folks I've worked with. We won't even talk about the former Anderson Consulting (now Accenture), who *literally* treat their people as consumables. > (4) as a consultant, > you have your own insurance; as an employee, we can yank > your insurance any time we want (control freaks R us!). At this point, I'm really mind-boggled. First, I've *always* worked as a W-2, and all the consulting companies I've worked for offered me insurance, which I always took, since it was *much* cheaper than anything I can find (that is, assuming anyone will take me, as I'm a) older, and b) had a serious medical condition a few years back). I've *never* seen insurance yanked from an employee, anywhere, not in a career that's coming up on thirty years. >(5) as a consultant, we can't really reduce you pay without your approval; > as an employee, we can reduce your pay rate to what we think you are worth > ($0, for instance). Again, I can't imagine what you're talking about. I've had a salary increase that was promised on hire not happen, but that was when they froze everyone's salary (we'll ignore the execs bonuses). > (6) as a consultant,you can brown-nose your way into $100K contract; as an > employee, we can tell you to shut up and get back to work. Really? Hey, cool, can you tell me where I can get a $100k contract, since I've never made that much. > > all managers pretty much suck. of course, all people pretty much suck. the > task is to suck less whether you are a mgr/phb or an employee (a.k.a., kinda > normal jane or joe) Well, no - I've had some *very* good managers, who actually knew what I was doing, and valued me for it. There are *always* jerks and MBA's.... mark -- redhat-list mailing list unsubscribe mailto:redhat-list-request@xxxxxxxxxx?subject=unsubscribe https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/redhat-list
