On Wednesday, October 10, 2012 05:48:10 PM Matijn Woudt wrote: > On Wed, Oct 10, 2012 at 5:12 PM, Jim Giner <jim.giner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > > On 10/10/2012 10:07 AM, Floyd Resler wrote: > >> On Oct 10, 2012, at 9:12 AM, Andy McKenzie <amckenzie4@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: > >>> <snip> > >>> > >>>>> Have you read a book on php and perhaps one on CSS to help > >>>>> with your "hiding" problem? (BTW - that last was a hint.) > >>>> > >>>> I've read plenty of PHP books I own at least 5 and ALL of them I've > >>>> read > >>>> hardly ever explain anything at all. They just throw some code in there > >>>> and > >>>> say "this is what it does" and gives a picture of the finished product. > >>>> Total > >>>> waste of my money! Also, how am I going to learn PHP if I've got to mix > >>>> it all > >>>> up with CSS. It's just going to make things harder and more confusing > >>>> on > >>>> me. I > >>>> only threw lightbox in there because I knew I didn't have to do or > >>>> learn > >>>> anything special and to put a smile on my face if it worked. After all, > >>>> if it > >>>> can't be fun, why do it? > >>> > >>> </snip> > >>> > >>> I rarely post anything to this list, because almost everything asked > >>> is above my level of understanding. But, speaking as a relative > >>> beginner, I have a few comments here. > >>> > >>> 1) Books. I, too, have read a lot of PHP books. In the end, the ones > >>> I've found most useful were by WROX press. Their "Beginning PHP4" by > >>> Choi, Kent, Lea, Prasad, and Ullman was one of the best "intro to > >>> programming" type books I've found for the way I learn. It's now > >>> obsolete, but the core information is still good. I haven't read > >>> through the Beginning PHP 5.3 version as thoroughly, but it also seems > >>> to be pretty good. You might also want to check with local community > >>> colleges to see if someone offers a basic course -- PHP, C, C++, > >>> something like that. The language may be different, but the concepts > >>> remain the same. > >>> > >>> 2) "They just throw some code in there and say "this is what it does" > >>> and gives a picture of the finished product. Total waste of my money! > >>> Also, how am I going to learn PHP if I've got to mix it all up with > >>> CSS." > >>> > >>> This one's harder. These days CSS is part of the web, and you're > >>> > >>> stuck with it if you want to do anything complex. So here's my > >>> advice: Find something simple to experiment with. Don't start with a > >>> complex project, start with something that doesn't actually do > >>> anything useful. When I start trying to understand a function I > >>> haven't used before, I build a new page called something like > >>> "foo_test", where foo is the name of the function. These days it > >>> might be ip2long_test, or something like that, but I still have some > >>> in my test folder with names like "echo_test.php" where I was trying > >>> to figure out how that function worked. Start there. Do something > >>> simple. Lightbox may be too complex. Maybe build a fortune cookie > >>> webpage, where every time you click a button it reloads with a new > >>> fortune. Learn to pull fortunes out of a file and out of a database. > >>> Once you've got the hang of that, start using CSS to change how it > >>> looks. Once THAT's working right, figure out how to use JavaScript > >>> (you're going to need it sooner or later!) and AJAX to make it reload > >>> the fortune without reloading the whole page. > >>> > >>> Yeah, it's a boring project. But it's a stepping stone to doing > >>> > >>> what you really want to do. The alternative is to do what I did: > >>> start with a big project, and accept that you're going to rewrite it > >>> dramatically later. I started with a book inventory system. First I > >>> built a login and authentication system -- that builds a form, and > >>> queries the database to see if the userid and password are correct. > >>> Then I built a system to list what was in the book table for the > >>> database. Around the time I finished that, I realized I needed more > >>> granularity in user logins, so I went back and rebuilt the login tool. > >>> Then I realized I didn't actually have a way to add stuff to the DB, > >>> so I built that tool.... and so on. It ended up taking me something > >>> like a year, because I'd never looked at PHP before, and I've now > >>> scrapped the entire project and rebuilt it. Why? Because I did just > >>> about everything wrong. It just plain wasn't practical to try to fix > >>> it. I'd never learned the basics, I just threw myself at a big > >>> project to see what would happen. > >>> > >>> Good luck! > >>> > >>> -Andy McKenzie > >> > >> Excellent advise! When learning any language, those small steps you > >> suggest is how I've always learned the language. A few years ago I ran > >> across someone who didn't know a thing about programming but wanted to > >> learn. The first project he wanted to tackle was to write his own online > >> role playing game. You know, like World of Warcraft! Uh, yeah. I > >> steered > >> him away from that! > >> > >> Take care, > >> Floyd > > > > All great advice but alas, I fear that my long-winded response that began > > all these succeeding advice columns has steered our OP away from this > > list. > > He thinks we're above his level (we are) and that he needs to start > > somewhere else, which means he'll probably repeat the mistakes that have > > been mentioned here. Oh, well.... you can only help those who ask for > > it, > > and only if they know what to do with it. > > I doubt he's gone for good. Looking at the archives[1], he shows up > once in a few months with some random question (making same mistakes > over again). > So if he's gone now, he'll probably show up in a few months. > > [1] http://marc.info/?a=125667564200003&r=1&w=2 I'm not gone, I just quit posting on this subject, because things got so twisted along the way, that everyone is now perceiving me to not know the slightest thing about PHP and being someone I'm not! In my very original post on this series, I was using opendir and someone had suggested using glob. Well I didn't know much about glob, because of course I hadn't got that far yet, but since someone else had backed up the suggestion from the original poster I was dumb enough to jump forward to the unknown and cause myself to get confused and flustered and my train of thought blew right out the window! But, I'm the kind of person that doesn't give up! I was determined to figure out how to get glob to work for what I was trying to do because it was suggested by people who KNOW what they are doing and I KNOW they know what they are doing! I kept telling myself "glob is the answer", so really there's no reason to be SMUG about it! I should have went back to using opendir, but if I did that, someone would be on my ass about that sooner or later, harping at me that they showed me how to use glob! To top it off, I started dabbling and trying to learn PHP, back somewhere around early 2000 or 2001 and by that time I had my 2nd child on the way, but by 2002 I had had 3 kids born in '99, 2000 and 2002. So I had to put what I wanted to do on hold until here about a year ago, some things have changed since then in the PHP world and I'm pushing 45 years old and my brain isn't as sharp as it was 20 years ago! So, yes I got confused, and I didn't know much about return because I hadn't used it yet but that doesn't give anyone the right to judge me on that basis! With that said, I just may leave the list. After all if this is all I'm going to get out of it, it's not worth it! -- David M.
