> > On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 7:48 PM, tedd <tedd.sperling@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: At 1:46 PM -0400 5/10/11, Adam Richardson wrote: > >> The rest of the list does show you've read a fair amount in the past month >> (just as others on this list, including me), but what does it do to >> specifically support your argument? >> > > It was not presented as a list that supported my argument, but rather as a > list of references I read within the last month -- just to show that I am > keeping current on a gamut of topics. > > While people may debate the use of <b> and <i> tags, it is clear that their > use is not recommended by many -- and that was my point -- and the reason > why I do not support their use. YMMV. > > > Again, I greatly respect you, Ted, I have learned much from your posts, >> and >> this discussion does not detract from that. However, I want to make sure >> the >> developers subscribing to the list will consider the use of the <i> and >> <b> >> tags as recommended by the W3C in (X)HTML5. >> >> Adam >> > > Please provide the reference where the W3C recommends using the <b> and <i> > tags. I would like to read that. Ted, you said: > First, never use <B> -- or <I> for that matter. Micky pointed out the changes in HTML5, linking to an HTML5 Doctor Article noting the new semantics of the <i> and <b> tags: > – http://html5doctor.com/i-b-em-strong-element/ You brought your authority: > ...my information/position stems from my understanding derived from both > daily practice and constant reading. In addition to reading links like the > above (which I read btw), I also read several list provided by disability > concerns, such as "webdev.lists.d.umn.edu" being the best. In addition to > all that, I also read several technical books each week re these subjects. > For example, within this last month I've purchased and read HTML5 by > Lawson, Smashing CSS by Meyer, 100 Things by Weinschenk, Learning Web Design > by Robbins, Designing with the Mind in Mind by Johnson, Forms that work by > Jarret, Build your own web site the right way by Lloyd, PHP 5.3 by Doyle, > and Expert PHP and MySQL by Cuniosoa. That's a lot of reading, -- so I > think I keep up with what's going on. I pointed out that many of us read a great deal, and that the one source you cited specifically covering HTML5 speaks directly to the use of the <b> (and <i>) tags within HTML5. Additionally, let me say that the Lawson-Sharp book you mentioned is a great read. I also think that HTML5 Doctor (Micky's source) is a great read. HTML Doctor is a collaboration which includes both Bruce Lawson and Remy Sharp: http://html5doctor.com/about/ I provided links to the HTML5 spec (draft): > http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/Overview.html#the-i-element http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/Overview.html#the-b-element My position can be summarized as below: 1. I will try to follow the HTML5 spec (as it is now, and with the changes that occur when finalized): http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/Overview.html 2. The HTML5 spec has given semantic meanings to the i and b tags, making them media-independent (nice summaries below, including the link Micky pointed to initially): http://html5doctor.com/your-questions-16/ http://html5doctor.com/i-b-em-strong-element/ 3. If one works through the other possible options (the spec points out many other tags that may be more appropriate) and the b or i tag still is the best fit, they should use it. 4. Of great importance, *I'm not advocating using the b or i tags for presentation purposes!* Rather, consistent with my earlier emails, I'm advocating their use for the situations outlined in the spec, when the semantics can enhance the markup (which is intended to eventually enhance the experience of those utilizing text-to-speech software.) Many prominent CSS resets have for some time zeroed out the visual styling of i and b tags, including Meyer's: http://meyerweb.com/eric/tools/css/reset/ The use of the tag is now one of semantics, NOT PRESENTATION. The spec even points out: Style sheets can be used to format i<http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec-author-view/the-i-element.html#the-i-element> elements, just like any other element can be restyled. Thus, it is not the case that content in i<http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec-author-view/the-i-element.html#the-i-element> elements will necessarily be italicized. * * If you want to chat more about this topic, Tedd, you can email off list or we can meet up for a beer (although not this week, my wife is expecting any time ;) Adam -- Nephtali: A simple, flexible, fast, and security-focused PHP framework http://nephtaliproject.com
