On Wed, May 5, 2010 at 9:27 PM, Nathan Rixham <nrixham@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: > Daevid Vincent wrote: > >> -----Original Message----- >>> From: tedd [mailto:tedd.sperling@xxxxxxxxx] Sent: Wednesday, May 05, >>> 2010 8:19 AM >>> To: Daevid Vincent; php-general@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >>> Subject: RE: In need of CVS/SVN checkout script for Production >>> servers [solved] >>> >>> At 1:10 PM -0700 5/4/10, Daevid Vincent wrote: >>> >>>> Well, here is the one I'm using. I ended up just writing one (again!) >>>> >>>> http://www.daevid.com/content/examples/snippets.php :: "Production >>>> Deployment Script" >>>> >>> What?!? >>> >>> Advanced features?? >>> >>> I know you don't mean it, but you certainly know how to piss people off. >>> You are not going to like what I have to say, but please accept the >>> following as constructive criticism with no personal intent meant. >>> >>> The site fails W3C CSS validation with 96 errors. >>> >>> The site fails W3C HTML validation with 92 errors and 9 warnings. >>> >>> I have not run into a site like this since before the turn of this >>> century where we had browser wars. The problem isn't just with my browser, >>> but many more as you can see here: >>> >>> http://www.browsercam.com/public.aspx?proj_id=516739 >>> >>> The page (not addressing the entire site) is riddled with embedded >>> javascript and embedded styling both of which are considered bad from. >>> >>> I haven't even addressed accessibility, graceful degradation, or >>> separation of content from presentation from behavior all of which are the >>> goals of "best practices" sites -- and all of which this site fails >>> miserably. >>> >>> My advice, which I realize that you didn't ask for, is if you want to >>> provide something of substance, then do so for all and not just the >>> privileged elite who think they are the leading edge with this type of >>> "gimmick" nonsense. This site is a step backward into the old browser wars. >>> >>> Of course, I could tell you what I really think, but I don't want to be >>> too abrasive. :-) >>> >>> Cheers, >>> >>> tedd >>> >> >> *sigh* once again you people focus on something SOOOO off topic compared >> to >> the meat of the thread -- which is a production repository checkout >> script. >> >> As for my site. >> >> [*] I wrote it like 4 years ago or more when there were TWO browsers worth >> mentioning: IE and FF. >> [*] I used a 3rd party JS library from www.ceiton.com -- who are pretty >> much dormant. >> [*] The cieton code is not only compressed and impossible to debug, but >> often written in German! >> [*] I've looked at it a few times over the years to try and remove the >> limitation, because I also agree that most modern browsers should be >> able to handle >> the JS at this point. >> [*] I really don't care about the fringe browsers of Chrome, Opera, >> Konquerer, Blackberry, whatever (for my PERSONAL HOME PAGE) >> [*] http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp >> [*] http://marketshare.hitslink.com/report.aspx?qprid=0 [*] I'm sorry >> your using a browser that falls under the top 25%. In fact ALL the >> browsers besides IE and FF don't even add up to 16% of >> the ENTIRE market. Give me a break man. I've got more important things >> to do. >> [*] If you don't have Firefox, well then let me tell you where to go >> download it for free: http://www.mozilla.com They make it for all >> major OS's in case you didn't know. >> [*] Honestly, I also dislike Apple. I think it's stupid for them to make a >> browser. I think they make crappy products. I HATE my iPod. I am a Linux >> guy (or was until I realized my time was too valuable to keep wasting on >> Linux as a Desktop), and WANTED to LOVE OSX. I sold the damn notebook >> after >> a month of owning it. OSX blows. It's too dumbed down IMHO (as is >> Windows7, >> but that's another topic). In light of recent events where they fired a >> guy >> for showing that even more stupid iPad (great, a big iPhone that can't >> even >> call) to Wozniak and then going after Gizmodo, I have even more distain >> for >> them. So I really have no care to support them in any way shape or form. >> If >> the site works for Safari, fine. If not, oh well, change your USER_AGENT >> string or get Firefox/IE. >> >> As for CSS, inline styles, separation of logic, and all that other stuff >> you ASSUME I don't use -- you are very wrong. I just happen to use a lot >> of >> PHP to dynamically create various parts. In some cases I inline styles >> where they are used one time or used in a PHP function. I freely admit >> that >> there is some archaic code there too. Code that I'm not about to go back >> and re-factor at this stage. I know much more now than I did then. I would >> certainly do things differently, and the next time I get a wild-hair up my >> ass and a few days of that elusive commodity known as "free time" to code >> up a new design I will. Again, this is my personal site that's only >> purpose is to show some pictures and other random shit. >> >> And with all due respect Tedd -- as I know you're an icon here and I've >> learned many things from you myself. If I had to choose between my >> daevid.com site and one of the three you (presumably) illustrate as >> beacons >> of "the way to do it" (http://sperling.com http://ancientstones.com >> http://earthstones.com), then I would take my site any day of the week. >> These three sites harkon back to the days of command line Linx/Links and >> text based web pages in Mosaic using blue hyperlinks with purple visited >> indicators, gray backgrounds and <blink> tags. Of course your sites >> degrade >> nicely, they're ALL one step up from a page of text. The scream "elitist" >> W3C/Linux user. Yuk. >> > > Daevid, > > Perhaps pastebin or similar would help in the future & allow all access to > your handy snippets :) > > Tedd's website(s), certainly the three you listed, are fantastic - each one > consists of well formed html, presentation abstracted in to css, and are > not dependant on libraries, certain user agent vendors, or certain browser > capabilities, in order to be consumed. They are HTTP compliant, W3C > standards compliant, accessible - and whilst the design may not be the taste > of all (especially the web 2.0 crowd) - they do the job perfectly. Note that > you can also view them in text browsers, archive them, turn off css if you > don't like it. > > Whilst Tedd didn't have to comment on your website publicly, it is a public > website and this is a public forum, he wasn't rude, and everything he said > was indeed true. > > With regards 'The scream "elitist" W3C/Linux user.' > - Your website is hosted on Server: Apache/2.2.9 (Ubuntu) - linux > - W3C is the web standards agency, setup by the people who invented the > web, the standards are what make the web work. > - HTML is from W3C (and TimBL himself), as is HTTP, as are the > "hyperlinks" you mention. > - so much more.. > > Short version, without W3C and Linux you wouldn't have a website, or a job > - the least you could do is at least try to follow some of the > recommendations / standards, these people do work tirelessly to help you, > for free - you are supposed to be a web developer after all, how do you > expect to do that if you haven't read the manual(s) and don't understand the > technologies? > > Your website is not just your personal homepage, it's your online presense > and the message you are sending out to associates, friends and clients alike > (both current and potential). > > I won't say anything specific about your website, other than lol (you know > it's really bad) - just take it on the chin, if possible heed the good > (honest) advice you've been given, and get back on with what you're doing - > we all make mistakes and go down incorrect tech paths from time to time :) > > Best, > > Nathan > > > -- > PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) > To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php > > Daevid asked the list for a an app that facilitated SVN/CVS, and when nobody provided options, he crafted a solution of his own and then offered it back to the list. Please, let's keep to the content of the thread, or if you have some unprompted feedback, why not provide that off-list. The critical commentary would likely be better received. Additionally, the commentary has taken all focus from a resource he was trying to offer to the community, which isn't good for archiving purposes, either. Thanks for the resource, Daevid. Adam -- Nephtali: PHP web framework that functions beautifully http://nephtaliproject.com
