[PHP-DEV] PHP scalability problem

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If you think that's a problem, then yes.  Look into nginx.  But honestly,
you're not going to notice a speed improvement at all (maybe if you were
serving 2000 loads/sec you would, but only then if it's on a small box).



On Tue, May 26, 2009 at 11:52 PM, tRace DOliveira <married_74@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:

>  I also thought that it's PHP that causes the processes. Thanks that helps
> me alot. So the problem is not with the language itself but the web
> server(Apache)?
>
> --- On *Wed, 5/27/09, Eddie Drapkin <oorza2k5@xxxxxxxxx>* wrote:
>
>
> From: Eddie Drapkin <oorza2k5@xxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP scalability problem
> To: "tRace DOliveira" <married_74@xxxxxxxxx>
> Date: Wednesday, May 27, 2009, 3:47 AM
>
>
> ... no
>
> Apache uses processes, but can also use threads.  nginx and lighttpd both
> use a threaded model.  But you seem to have this idea in your head that it's
> PHP's fault and switching to a threaded webserver / CGI model will solve any
> noticeable scalability problems, so feel free to ditch PHP for ASP because
> you think it'll be anywhat faster.  I'll save you some time: it won't.
>
> On Tue, May 26, 2009 at 11:44 PM, tRace DOliveira <married_74@xxxxxxxxx<http://us.mc1104.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=married_74@xxxxxxxxx>
> > wrote:
>
>>
>> What I am trying to get at is that PHP uses processes(Heavy weight) and
>> ASP.NET <http://asp.net/> uses threads which are light weight. So it
>> inflicts less strain upon the web server. So I am trying to solve the
>> problem of the strain that PHP causes on ther server.
>> --- On *Wed, 5/27/09, Eddie Drapkin <oorza2k5@xxxxxxxxx<http://us.mc1104.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=oorza2k5@xxxxxxxxx>
>> >* wrote:
>>
>>
>> From: Eddie Drapkin <oorza2k5@xxxxxxxxx<http://us.mc1104.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=oorza2k5@xxxxxxxxx>
>> >
>> Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP scalability problem
>> To: "tRace DOliveira" <married_74@xxxxxxxxx<http://us.mc1104.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=married_74@xxxxxxxxx>
>> >
>> Cc: "PHP General Mailing List" <php-general@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<http://us.mc1104.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=php-general@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> >
>> Date: Wednesday, May 27, 2009, 3:39 AM
>>
>>
>>
>> I seriously doubt it.  PHP is a better language in almost all regards and
>> is much much more popular.  A lot of people make that decision every day and
>> I'd say most of them choose PHP.  Why ask that, though?
>>
>> On Tue, May 26, 2009 at 11:36 PM, tRace DOliveira <married_74@xxxxxxxxx<http://us.mc1104.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=married_74@xxxxxxxxx>
>> > wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Do you agree with me that when building a large web application that
>>> people would rather choose ASP.Net over PHP if people had to choose between
>>> those two ?
>>> --- On *Wed, 5/27/09, Eddie Drapkin <oorza2k5@xxxxxxxxx<http://us.mc1104.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=oorza2k5@xxxxxxxxx>
>>> >* wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> From: Eddie Drapkin <oorza2k5@xxxxxxxxx<http://us.mc1104.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=oorza2k5@xxxxxxxxx>
>>> >
>>> Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP scalability problem
>>> To: "Michael Shadle" <mike503@xxxxxxxxx<http://us.mc1104.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=mike503@xxxxxxxxx>
>>> >
>>> Cc: "tRace DOliveira" <married_74@xxxxxxxxx<http://us.mc1104.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=married_74@xxxxxxxxx>>,
>>> "internals@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<http://us.mc1104.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=internals@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>"
>>> <internals@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<http://us.mc1104.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=internals@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>> >
>>> Date: Wednesday, May 27, 2009, 3:29 AM
>>>
>>>
>>> nginx and php-fpm is the fastest setup I could find, after spending
>>> almost 2 weeks trying different combinations.
>>>
>>> Apache pre-fork model: 1900 reqs/second (this is with running queries per
>>> pageload)
>>> nginx w/ fpm: 3400 reqs/second
>>>
>>> And nginx's doc setup is awesome.
>>>
>>> Like Michael said, scaling PHP itself is no big deal, just add more
>>> worker nodes to your process pool, the issue is scaling out your sql server
>>> (memcache scaling is piss easy too)
>>>
>>> On Tue, May 26, 2009 at 11:24 PM, Michael Shadle <mike503@xxxxxxxxx<http://us.mc1104.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=mike503@xxxxxxxxx>
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>> Succinct and great reply.
>>>>
>>>> Better webserver: nginx :)
>>>>
>>>> #3 is probably the most important piece.
>>>>
>>>> I'd like to also note scaling php is pretty simple. Scaling out
>>>> typically provides better results as opposed to scaling up. Scaling your
>>>> datastore will always be your pain point. Adding new data nodes is complex.
>>>> Adding more php processing nodes is simple. Php nodes are just worker bees.
>>>> They're great for shared-nothing processing engines.
>>>>
>>>> I can't think of a good metaphor right now other than that.
>>>>
>>>> On May 26, 2009, at 7:55 PM, Eddie Drapkin <oorza2k5@xxxxxxxxx<http://us.mc1104.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=oorza2k5@xxxxxxxxx>>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>  1) PHP is Rarely The Bottleneck:
>>>>> http://talks.php.net/show/drupal08/<
>>>>> http://talks.php.net/show/drupal08/7>
>>>>>
>>>>> 2) Invest in an opcode cache
>>>>> 3) DB I/O is always the most restrictive part of your application, read
>>>>> the
>>>>> mysql performance blog (a lot applies for postgres too)
>>>>> 4) If you're serious about scalability, ditch apache and use a better
>>>>> webserver
>>>>> 5) You're describing what ajax does in a lot of cases
>>>>> 6) Have you deployed flatfile cache / apc / memcached?  If so, how?
>>>>> 7) Do you regularly run siege tests on new server stacks and profile
>>>>> each
>>>>> piece's impact on performance?
>>>>> 8) Do you profile your code every time you change some piece of logic?
>>>>>
>>>>> Scalability is an enormous mountain to climb and there's only so much
>>>>> you
>>>>> can offload on to the client.  Chances are there's more room for
>>>>> improvement
>>>>> at any stage in your development than there is potentiality for
>>>>> client-side
>>>>> processing.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, May 26, 2009 at 10:46 PM, tRace DOliveira <
>>>>> married_74@xxxxxxxxx<http://us.mc1104.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=married_74@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>> >wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> PHP is a server side scripting language, so that means that the server
>>>>>> will
>>>>>> have to do the bulk of the processing if not most.
>>>>>> I was thinking about shifting the processing to the client. Kinda like
>>>>>> how
>>>>>> java does it. I don't know really know how java does it but it would
>>>>>> be
>>>>>> interesting if it could be done for PHP also.
>>>>>> Thank you,
>>>>>> Leonard D'Oliveira
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>

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