Hi Daevid, Your included db.inc.php file contains what appears to be a very strict injunction against people on this list making use of it. In particular, these lines: #------------------------------------------------------------------- # # Confidential - Property of Symcell Corporation # Do not copy or distribute. # Copyright 2005-2008 Symcell Corporation. All rights reserved. # #------------------------------------------------------------------- Any chance you can resend this file without that warning included, if you have the authority to remove it? All the best, M is for Murray On Thu, Jan 15, 2009 at 7:39 AM, Daevid Vincent <daevid@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > Not to start a Holy War (as these "to framework" or "not to framework" > debates often turn into), but I personally had a horrible experience with > using frameworks. I was forced to use Symfony at my last job and it was so > cumbersome and slow to do even the simplest things. The whole MVC thing can > be overkill. Plus the learning curve can be quite steep. Then if you want to > hire other developers to work with you, you have to train them and let them > ramp up on not only the framework but also your core project too! More > wasted time. > > The pages are significantly slower than straight PHP by orders of > magnitude: http://paul-m-jones.com/?p=315 > > The basic problem with frameworks is they try to be one thing for all > people. This carries a lot of baggage with it. There's a lot of crap you end > up pulling in that you don't want/need. Plus if you want to deviate at all, > you either have to roll your own, or sometimes you simply just can't. They > seem attractive with all their plugins and stuff, but honestly, rarely do > the plugins do EXACTLY what you want, the way you want. It might be as > simple as trying to change the look/feel of a button or something and you'll > find out that you can't -- so now you have this website that has this > section that doesn't look like the rest of your site. And if you find a bug, > you have to try to either fix it yourself and then keep those changes > migrated into new updates, or submit it to the developer and hope they > implement them (and trust me, you can submit to them and have them rejected > for all sorts of lame reasons -- even though the work has been done and > you're using it!) > > I advise against it. Just follow good practices and use thin wrappers and > functions. Don't get all OO googlie eyed and try to over-engineer and > over-OO the code. OO is great for some things (like a User class) but don't > start making some OO page renderer or form builder. Don't fall into the DB > Abstraction trap either -- just use a wrapper around your DB calls (see > attached), so you can swap out that wrapper if (and you almost never do) you > change the DB. Don't be suckered by something like QuickForms -- you WILL > run into limitations that you can't get around and are at their mercy. Don't > buy the hype that DIV's are the magic bullet and TABLEs are "poor design" -- > Tables are still the best and most ubiquitous way to align things in a > browser agnostic way (including mobile phones, etc.) and to layout forms. > > I've not used Zend myself, so I can't say for certain, but the above > tenements I think would still hold true. I guess I would trust the Zend one > the most given they actually make PHP, but at this point in time, I would > never choose to use a bloated framework. Then again, I write enterprise > level and very custom applications (Saas) so maybe this doesn't apply if all > you're trying to do is make yet another Blog or Photo-album or > personal/corporate website or something generic/basic. I've been coding > nearly 20 years and founded several $MM companies. That's my take (or rant > depending on how you look at it). > > Daevid. > http://daevid.com > > > On Wed, 2009-01-14 at 20:36 +0000, jcorry@xxxxxxxxx wrote: > > I've been reading about these great new 'frameworks' for PHP development. > > The most similar experience I have so far is using PEAR/Smarty in > application development. > > I am becoming very interested in adding one (or more) of these frameworks > to my work existence. > > I'm leaning toward the Zend Framework for the following reasons: > 1. Zend's commitment to PHP in the enterprise environment > 2. I'm studying for Zend PHP certification...so remaining within the same > family sort of makes sense. > 3. It's widely heralded as a very good 'framework' > 4. Integration with my IDE, Zend Studio > 5. Great support/userbase/forums/docs > > I'm getting ready to start a new project that is going to be somewhat of a > stretch for me. It'll be probably the most complex project I've done where > I'm the only designer/developer and have to do everything myself: from func > spec to mockups to wireframes to database design to documentation to code > to maintenance...all of it is me. > > What do you think, should I kill 2 birds with one stone and use the ZF to > build this new project? Or would it slow me down to add 'learning the ins > and outs of a new way of working' to my already long list of tasks and > short time to complete them? > > Zend touts this thing as 'saving time' and 'letting you work more > efficiently'. Will the new developer who is learning how to use ZF realize > those efficiencies or are they only for the people who are quite > experienced with the framework? > > I'm curious about whether it's practical to begin with a framework by using > it on a real, production project. > > ?? > > John Corry > > > > -- > PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) > To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php >
