[snip] ...experience... [/snip] Sounds like it is time for you to learn some modeling. "Why?", you ask. It is very simple; once a project is broken down into its component parts it will be much easier for you to provide a time estimate for your customer. Additionally, high level overviews (such as simple flow charts) will give the customer something to sign-off on as it allows them to visualize the project and make the needed changes before any coding occurs. "What tools do I use?", your curiosity increases. Start simple. Open Office and Microsoft Excel have basic flowchart shapes in their drawing tools. If you need to do some OOP modeling there are several UML packages out there. There are several articles online concerning UML. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php