Rob your sick ;-) this thread made me think about the Observer Effect - probably the randomness is just in your/my/his/her head :-P or we're all green men or something. Robert Cummings wrote: > On Mon, 2007-12-10 at 17:45 -0500, Daniel Brown wrote: >> On Dec 10, 2007 5:39 PM, Robert Cummings <robert@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: >>> On Mon, 2007-12-10 at 16:32 -0600, Jay Blanchard wrote: >>>> [snip] >>>>> Without order there cannot be randomness. >>>> But is the reverse true? >>>> [/snip] >>> But disorder isn't necessarily random. >> Unless you get into Shannon entropy, but that still doesn't >> disprove your statement. > > Shannon entropy (from what I briefly scanned) is based upon the > presumption of random. As such you can't use it to argue a case for the > existence of true random. Entropy is merely the tendency of an ordered > state to move toward disorder. It also doesn't in any way make an > argument for random. For instance, let's say I order 10 peas into a line > in a straw. I then shoot them all at a target which they more or less > hit and scatter. The peas are now in disorder, but their places of rest > (presuming we're not in outer space ;) would be the logical outcome of > the application of the laws of physics with respect to mass, force, > angle, gravity, etc. They aren't randomly lying on the ground. Although, > one might casually choose their resting locations to derive a > pseudo-random number since it is unlikely one could easily guess the > precise landing location of each pea. > > Anyways... this was just a fun sidetrack like we used to get our > teachers on when we were kids :) > > Cheers, > Rob. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
