On Mon, 2007-12-10 at 17:45 -0500, Daniel Brown wrote: > On Dec 10, 2007 5:39 PM, Robert Cummings <robert@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > > On Mon, 2007-12-10 at 16:32 -0600, Jay Blanchard wrote: > > > [snip] > > > > Without order there cannot be randomness. > > > > > > But is the reverse true? > > > [/snip] > > > > But disorder isn't necessarily random. > > Unless you get into Shannon entropy, but that still doesn't > disprove your statement. Shannon entropy (from what I briefly scanned) is based upon the presumption of random. As such you can't use it to argue a case for the existence of true random. Entropy is merely the tendency of an ordered state to move toward disorder. It also doesn't in any way make an argument for random. For instance, let's say I order 10 peas into a line in a straw. I then shoot them all at a target which they more or less hit and scatter. The peas are now in disorder, but their places of rest (presuming we're not in outer space ;) would be the logical outcome of the application of the laws of physics with respect to mass, force, angle, gravity, etc. They aren't randomly lying on the ground. Although, one might casually choose their resting locations to derive a pseudo-random number since it is unlikely one could easily guess the precise landing location of each pea. Anyways... this was just a fun sidetrack like we used to get our teachers on when we were kids :) Cheers, Rob. -- ........................................................... SwarmBuy.com - http://www.swarmbuy.com Leveraging the buying power of the masses! ........................................................... -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
