Some people just have to whine. It's too bad people on this list have to put up with this behaviour. We do have a position available for someone who wants to work, and climb the ladder into what could be a lifelong career working with a leading edge group of developers. It is a foot in the door position, with potential to turn into a staff position, as most of these positions do, and a secure, well paying career with many benefits. You can find out more about some of the work undertaken at the centre by visiting the Web site. http://atrc.utoronto.ca/index.php?option=com_content&task=blogcategory&id=26&Itemid=109 greg mlists wrote: >A university, which hypes the need for an education, charges a fortune >for it (causing people to go into massive debt to get it), and then >turns around an offers less than a living wage is hypocritical. > >"Becoming university staff takes a couple years, after which salaries >are competivitive with the going rates." So for the first couple of >years you get taken advantage of and then, maybe, you will get paid >more! > >That is just not fair. > > > >On Tue, 2007-09-04 at 14:28 -0400, Greg Gay wrote: > > >>Rob/mlists >> >>You're certainly not encouraging PHP programmers to get involved with >>paid open source projects. That's a guaranteed $50,000 a yr, a little >>low perhaps by industry standards, but it is a reasonable starting rate, >>and gets your foot in the door. >> >>You should have a look at who the employer is, and what they do. They >>(we) are >>looking for a person who has done their research. This is more than >>just a job. It has the potential to introduce applicants to a world of >>experience, not just code crunching, but getting involved with the >>groups who introduce new technologies and working on leading edge >>projects (groups like the W3C, IMS, ISO, AICC, and many others) . >>Experiences you won't get as a programmer for your average software >>developer. The ATRC is involved with most standards bodies around the >>world, and has dozen of open source projects on the go. >> >>Becoming university staff takes a couple years, after which salaries are >>competivitive with the going rates. Not to mention a full set of >>benefits, pension, excellent working environment, including flexible >>working hours, travel benefits, free university course (get a masters or >>phd for nothing) etc. Most staff start on a casual/contract basis before >>being moved into the main stream. Our established programmers do earn in >>the 90-100G per year, with benefits on top of that. All included, that's >>somewhere in the $60/hr range, with $0 expenses. >> >>You're auto machanic btw, has overhead included in that rate, so that's >>a rather poor comparison. How much do you think he really makes an hour, >>after paying expenses out of that $99? And of course 4% isn't a bonus. >>Contract workers are paid that weekly, while staff accumulate it so they >>can take holidays and get paid. >> >> >>greg >> >> >> >> >>Robert Cummings wrote: >> >> >>>On Mon, 2007-09-03 at 13:47 -0400, mlists wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>>>Wow! >>>> >>>>Spend $100K on a university degree in computer science, work >>>>successfully for five years with all the major technologies, and then >>>>get paid $25 per hour? >>>> >>>> >>>The poster didn't mention anything about being competent. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>My auto mechanic charges an average of $99 per hour. >>>> >>>>Sounds like a great deal for the university. Maybe the successful >>>>candidate can work off his student loans. >>>> >>>> >>>Well 100k is a bit high for a 4 year program. And then again it depends >>>on whether you had to move away from your parents to attend university. >>>If you live within commute range of your university then you can get >>>away with 20 to 30k expenses in Canada (depending on University). If you >>>have to cover rent then it's a different story :) That said, Toronto is >>>one of the most expensive cities in Canada in which to live. IMHO he >>>still thinks the tech sector is in a depression and developers with 5 >>>years experience can be had for a pittance. What made me laugh was the >>>"4%" vacation pay. That's a legal requirement in Canada for full time >>>employment. Not a bonus. >>> >>>Cheers, >>>Rob. >>> >>> > > > -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
