A university, which hypes the need for an education, charges a fortune for it (causing people to go into massive debt to get it), and then turns around an offers less than a living wage is hypocritical. "Becoming university staff takes a couple years, after which salaries are competivitive with the going rates." So for the first couple of years you get taken advantage of and then, maybe, you will get paid more! That is just not fair. On Tue, 2007-09-04 at 14:28 -0400, Greg Gay wrote: > Rob/mlists > > You're certainly not encouraging PHP programmers to get involved with > paid open source projects. That's a guaranteed $50,000 a yr, a little > low perhaps by industry standards, but it is a reasonable starting rate, > and gets your foot in the door. > > You should have a look at who the employer is, and what they do. They > (we) are > looking for a person who has done their research. This is more than > just a job. It has the potential to introduce applicants to a world of > experience, not just code crunching, but getting involved with the > groups who introduce new technologies and working on leading edge > projects (groups like the W3C, IMS, ISO, AICC, and many others) . > Experiences you won't get as a programmer for your average software > developer. The ATRC is involved with most standards bodies around the > world, and has dozen of open source projects on the go. > > Becoming university staff takes a couple years, after which salaries are > competivitive with the going rates. Not to mention a full set of > benefits, pension, excellent working environment, including flexible > working hours, travel benefits, free university course (get a masters or > phd for nothing) etc. Most staff start on a casual/contract basis before > being moved into the main stream. Our established programmers do earn in > the 90-100G per year, with benefits on top of that. All included, that's > somewhere in the $60/hr range, with $0 expenses. > > You're auto machanic btw, has overhead included in that rate, so that's > a rather poor comparison. How much do you think he really makes an hour, > after paying expenses out of that $99? And of course 4% isn't a bonus. > Contract workers are paid that weekly, while staff accumulate it so they > can take holidays and get paid. > > > greg > > > > > Robert Cummings wrote: > > On Mon, 2007-09-03 at 13:47 -0400, mlists wrote: > > > >>Wow! > >> > >>Spend $100K on a university degree in computer science, work > >>successfully for five years with all the major technologies, and then > >>get paid $25 per hour? > > > > > > The poster didn't mention anything about being competent. > > > > > >>My auto mechanic charges an average of $99 per hour. > >> > >>Sounds like a great deal for the university. Maybe the successful > >>candidate can work off his student loans. > > > > > > Well 100k is a bit high for a 4 year program. And then again it depends > > on whether you had to move away from your parents to attend university. > > If you live within commute range of your university then you can get > > away with 20 to 30k expenses in Canada (depending on University). If you > > have to cover rent then it's a different story :) That said, Toronto is > > one of the most expensive cities in Canada in which to live. IMHO he > > still thinks the tech sector is in a depression and developers with 5 > > years experience can be had for a pittance. What made me laugh was the > > "4%" vacation pay. That's a legal requirement in Canada for full time > > employment. Not a bonus. > > > > Cheers, > > Rob. > -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
