i dont know what all this goPHP5 stuff is about.
all i know is there was an announcment on php.net a few weeks back saying
php4 is deprecated and it soon will be made obsolete.
-nathan
On 8/25/07, Robert Cummings <robert@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> On Sat, 2007-08-25 at 12:28 -0500, Larry Garfield wrote:
> > Robert and everyone: PLEASE do not reply to list AND the sender, at
> least not
> > when I'm the sender. I don't need double copies of every message in
> every
> > thread I participate in. Thanks.
>
> Sorry I've been hitting reply-all since I first used email in '93. I
> have my doubts I can seriously change my habits now. I've done so this
> one time just for you though :)
>
>
> > On Saturday 25 August 2007, Robert Cummings wrote:
>
>
> > Sure you can. You could do it in C, too, and then you don't need PHP's
> > overhead. The "you can accomplish it without this tool" argument
> carries no
> > weight since the whole point of the tool is "but I can accomplish it in
> far
> > less time with less code and fewer bugs with it".
> >
> > You can build a house using nothing but a hand saw, but a buzz saw makes
> it oh
> > so much easier. :-)
>
> PHP4 is the buzz saw. PHP5 is the buzz saw with some extras.
>
> > > > - SPL. You can leverage SPL without having a fully-OOP
> architecture. In
> > > > fact, I find it most useful to be able to "have my procedural cake
> and
> > > > OOP icing, too". No, you don't have to use it, but it's a useful
> tool.
> > >
> > > But it doesn't offer much to a fully procedural architecture.
> >
> > Have you tried it?
>
> Yes I've tried procedural development. it's fun, can be a bit tedious
> passing around arrays, but altogether not bad.
>
> > > > - SimpleXML and the DOM extension. XML handling that doesn't suck
> ass.
> > > > No you don't have to use them, but if you're doing anything with XML
> > > > processing you will thank the gods that you did.
> > >
> > > I already have an XML API that works fine in PHP4.
> >
> > There's only a narrow sliver of use cases where I'd say PHP 4's
> primitive SAX
> > parser "works fine". Perhaps you're only working in those, but if
> you're
> > doing anything more complex then the extra tools make life a hell of a
> lot
> > easier.
>
> I have a wrapper around the parser. I access fields using a very simple
> path string.
>
> $xml->getLiteral( '/response/products/product#1@status' );
>
> or
>
> $xml->focus( '/response/products/product' );
> $products = $xml->getIndexes();
> foreach( $products as $pi )
> {
> echo 'Status: '.$xml->getLiteral( "#$pi@status" );
> }
>
> It works very well on very complex XML.
>
> > > > - A few dozen new utility functions. Sure they could be/have been
> > > > reimplemented in PHP 4 user-space, but they're not as fast as when
> > > > implemented in C.
> > >
> > > True, but that's a compatibility / performance tradeoff. And there
> > > doesn't need to be a tradeoff. You can test for PHP4 and include the
> PHP
> > > versions if PHP4 is active. Otherwise default to PHP5 C
> implementations.
> >
> > You have to be careful how you structure the code, though. Conditional
> > function definitions still get compiled even if they aren't "defined",
> so
> > there's no memory savings.
>
> They don't get compiled if you conditionally include the files that have
> them.
>
> > > > The GoPHP5 project is not about forcing people to use OOP. It's
> about
> > > > ensuring that developers have a full tool box available to them when
> > > > writing code. If you're still using PHP 4 now, then your tool box
> is
> > > > only half-full. Get on PHP 5 to get the other half.
> > >
> > > I never said gophp5 was about forcing the use of OOP. It just strikes
> me
> > > as an unnecessary push when market forces will perform the appropriate
> > > pushing at the appropriate time. GOPHP5 is an artifical push for a
> > > faster move towards an inevitable future.
> >
> > GoPHP5 *is that market force*. It's developers saying "OK, we're sick
> of PHP
> > 4, it's time for PHP 5, get with the program". Hosts that don't keep
> up,
> > well, that's capitalism. It's well past the "appropriate time".
>
> No, GoPHP5 is an external force attempting to sway the market. If you
> were THE market force then PHP5 would already be the majority version
> and GoPHP5 would be moot.
>
> > And actually, what I've found from GoPHP5 is that the Nexen stats
> showing 20%
> > PHP 5 deployment on a good day are bunk. There's no shortage of PHP 5
> > compatible hosts, including the big names. We've been holding ourselves
> back
> > needlessly.
> >
> > > > The other factor is that those writing code that goes on servers
> they
> > > > don't have absolute control over (I dare say most of us) are bound
> by
> > > > *others'* refusal to upgrade to PHP 5. If I'm on a shared host, I'm
> > > > stuck with whatever that host is running, even if it's ancient.
> > >
> > > I've nothing against running your stuff in PHP5, nothing against it at
> > > all. But I don't see what the problem is with maintaining PHP4
> > > compatibility while enjoying PHP5 if you so choose to use PHP5.
> >
> > Because it is not possible to use SimpleXML or SPL or PDO etc. while
> > maintaining PHP 4 compatibility, unless you write two completely
> separate
> > implementations with a common facade.
>
> But if you already have those implementations because you're coming from
> PHP4, then who cares. If I already have a huge codebase that uses PHP4
> XML semantics then why recode those to use SimpleXML or SPL or PDO when
> they already work fine in PHP4? Sure, if I have time, money, or
> resources I can go ahead and do the conversion for the sake of
> converting or using the faster C implementation, but otherwise I'm doing
> extra work for nothing when the current code works. I'm all for PHP5
> compatibility, but I just don't see the point in dropping PHP4
> compatibility when it already works.
>
> > That's a complete waste of my time. I
> > can't enjoy PHP 5's exceptions (if I am so inclined) without cutting off
> PHP
> > 4 servers. While there were lots of PHP 4 servers, most mass-market
> projects
> > were too afraid of cutting off their own install base to do so. Now,
> though,
> > they have enough "market force" in toto that it's not a big risk to open
> up
> > to PHP 5 features.
>
> GoPHP5 is more akin to a lobbying group. They are trying to appeal to
> the mass market to sway it's current position. Again, I'll just
> reiterate, PHP5 good to have compatibility in the near future,
> completely wholeheartedly embracing PHP5 at the expense of PHP4 when you
> already have PHP4 compatibility and installed base-- questionable IMHO.
>
> Cheers,
> Rob.
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