[snip] They're not hacks, they're features. :-) I agree with Jay. Leonard -- as far as 99% of the time for anything on the web, prove it. You can't -- your trolling. Leonard -- as far as resizing properly, what the hell are you talking about? The question is rhetorical I don't care to dwell on the lunacy of the statement -- take it to a css-discuss list. [/snip] BTW, I am not saying that I am not guilty of using tables for layout (just take a gander at www.pocket.com - I did the original design [very liquid, stretches well but IE7 horks it up] and will be doing the next version as well). I often turn to tables when time is an issue, but as I use CSS more and more I try to avoid using tables for layout, unless it is tabular data. One very astute person here mentioned accessibility, and rightly so. Some countries are holding developers feet to the fire on this point. Tables for layout (a generally acknowledged hack for years) hampers accessibility to screen readers and other tools disadvantaged persons use to read and navigate web sites. I probably violate truckloads of accessibility rules every day. I also did not see this mentioned; browsers not only treat CSS differently, they treat tables differently as well. Some browsers will not display a table until they receive a closing table tag, others will attempt to show the table as the data comes to the browser (a sometimes nifty display and shift into position effect). The one thing that is for sure is that you cannot treat web layout like print layout and I see that all too often. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php