To set the record straight for both camps, in the web apps that come to me I simply do the PHP, javascript, etc. The files come to me already PhotoShopped and Dreamweavvvved. I tell them the fields I need, giving them a general pencil sketch of the login or edit page, etc. as I see it. They are good at what they do and at the same time actually afraid of the coding, as PHP is too flexible for their ordered minds. So their it is. I am a man with feet in both worlds. Am I happy with this situation? Why not, everything is changing all the time and I have to be ready to embrace the next shift in technology when it comes. Maybe we'll all be using PC's like Dick Tracy did with the wrist watch computer from the comic strips when I was a kid. Oh boy, now I've told my old age to all. So be it. Chetan -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php