What, agree with jan. The world must be ending soon.
From my Android phone on T-Mobile. The first nationwide 4G network.
-------- Original message --------
From: "Joseph Chamberlain, D.D.S." <drjchamberlain@xxxxxxxxx>
Date: 12/10/2012 3:10 PM (GMT-08:00)
To: List for Photo/Imaging Educators - Professionals - Students <photoforum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: NY Post Runs Cover Photo of Man About to Die.
Your situation is entirely different.
As a medical photographer you were documenting individuals who were already receiving medical care and whose lives weren’t in any immediate danger, immediate being the keyword here.
I have no doubt that your work has helped those you documented with your photos and I applaud you for doing so.
Lea Murphy also reports a different situation. She stated that she first checked her son to make sure he was safe and then (and only then) had that gut instinct to take a photo of his arm. Her first reaction was to run to his aid in order to make sure he was safe. Once she realized that he had a fracture but his condition was not life threatening her reaction was to take a photo. I might have done the same to document the incident and perhaps even help the orthopedic surgeon evaluate the case (often times edema or swelling is so intense by the time the victim arrives at the hospital that orthopedic surgeons have difficulty ‘seeing’ exactly in what position the fractured segment is in case they decided to perform a ‘closed’ reduction of the fracture).
The situation at the platform was something altogether different. The individual was in immediate danger of loosing his life and in fact did. In situations like this one we must use different decision-making algorithms. I can see some people just ‘frozen’ and unable to react because they were caught by surprise with the type of incident they would never expect to witness. But for those who had time (and I am referring to all who had the time and not just the photographer) I think it would have been the right thing to do to at least attempt to help that man.
Joseph.
On 12/10/12 2:13 PM, "BL BLAZY" <blb820@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
As medical photographer (and separately a hospice photographer), I photographed the dying every day - I wore an invisible hard hat to show this part of life.
Because I worked in these fields I knew the many lives these photos helped, and even may have saved to this day.
Could I have saved any of my subjects in another way,
... its not as though I have not considered this possibility, however low the chance. There is always a choice, mine was to make the photos.
Sudden death is shocking to most of us humans, long term suffering may be another matter. We have no control over the poor safety design/upgrade of this type of transportation - this is what the photo shows to my eye. Hopefully, long term, that frame will make a difference.
On Mon, Dec 10, 2012 at 4:44 PM, Joseph Chamberlain, D.D.S. <drjchamberlain@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
James,
My point exactly. You and I are in agreement.
Photography and photojournalism can't be used as an excuse for not making an
attempt to save that man.
This was the point for my question. How would you feel if your son or
daughter, father or mother, husband or wife, was in that situation and not a
single person including the photographer who was nearby made at least an
attempt to save him or her?
It is impossible to judge from the photo but the image seems to indicate
that the man was (1) Asian (likely of small built and weight), (2) in his
50s or older (judging from photos of his wife posted elsewhere) and (3) with
his chest at the level of platform and arms reaching over the floor of the
same platform. It would have taken a second for someone to pull him from
that position onto the platform and away from the track. Why didn't anyone
try? Assuming the 10 seconds being reported to be right, would 10 seconds be
enough to allow the photographer to run and rescue the man? I would think
so.
In most situations such as this one we seem to be caught off guard.
Sometimes we don't have enough time to fully understand what is going on
until after the incident has taken place. It takes our minds a certain
'reaction time' to process that something so surreal is in reality
happening. However, it would appear from the photo that the photographer was
quick to react and had good reflexes – so much so that he prepared his
equipment in time to take the shot. The time it took him to prepare his
equipment (from when he started to prepare to the moment the shot was taken)
in addition to the distance in seconds between the man and the train as
depicted on then photo, is the total amount of time he had to make an
attempt to save the man. Would it have been sufficient?
Just try to draw a mental picture of what that man must have looked like
after the tragedy. Can you imagine the suffering and pain? Would you want a
to see a loved one die such horrible death because not a single human being
was caring enough to at least make an attempt to save his or her life?
I think we all have the obligation to at least try.
Joseph.
On 12/10/12 12:41 PM, "James Schenken" <jds@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> The question here is "Was the man savable." Could anyone have saved him in
> the circumstances.
>
> I couldn't tell how far the train was when the picture was taken. I couldn't
> tell how fast it was moving.
>
> So, did he have 3 seconds left or 15?
>
> I am reminded of a story of aquatic beaching one night when thousands were
> beached and dying. A young girl went along the beach picking them up one at a
> time and putting them back in the water. An observer, one of many at the
> beach that night, cried out "What are you doing, you can't save them".
>
> To which she replied, "Maybe not, but I can save this one and this one ...."
>
> Oscar Schindler couldn't save the millions who died at Nazi hands but he could
> save a few.
>
> We can't at this point say the man could have lived if someone had tried.
> What we can say is that nobody tried and he died.
>
> In reference to Kevin Carter, he couldn't save the thousands but he might have
> been able to save one. He didn't try and couldn't live with that.
>
> James
>>> Once must decide in such moments if he is a detached observer of, or an
>>> active participant in, life.
>>>
>>> Jeff
>>>> Then, let me ask all a simple question?
>>>>
>>>> How would you feel if the person on the tracks was your son, daughter,
>>>> husband, wife, father or mother? Would that change or perspective? Would
>>>> that change your answers?
>>>>
>>>> One of my favorite quotes that has never been more relevant as it is in the
>>>> world we live in now comes from Einstein:
>>>>
>>>> " Our technology has finally surpassed our humanity ".
