Don,
(And fellow listmembers)
Fair comment indeed!
GUILTY AS CHARGED!
On choosing images for my FRPS portfolio. I believe that photographers are the worst judges of thier own work.
I am tabulating responses to the images in order to see which images are the most "Popular" amongst this auspicious group.
To quote the Talmud "Ask everyone's opinion, but make the decision yourself"
h
Guy Glorieux wrote:
> Dear fellow members,
>
> Before covering the Gallery submissions this week - this should be
> easy, since there are only three pictures, one of them being mine - I
> want to express my outrage at what is currently happening with the PF
> list.
>
> What...???? Only three pictures were submitted to the Gallery this
> week. This has to be a joke! There was a time when it could take two
> weeks or even more before my submission eventually made it to the
> Gallery site.
>
> What .. is .. going .. on ... ????
>
> We find time to send postcards and discuss at nauseam the price and
> quality of printing postcards here and there through the web when
> these printing sites disappear by the dozen each week to be replaced
> by new names...
>
> Is this what the famous PhotoForum list run by an incredibly dedicated
> senior Faculty member of the world-respected Rochester Institute of
> Technology is all about????? I just can't believe it. Would I want
> to invite anyone of significance to join the list at this moment?
> Would any Faculty member encourage their students to do so? I don't
> think I need to write the answer!
>
> Just look at the three postings on the Gallery this week:
>
> - Marilyn Dalrymple - Green and Blue
> Green and Blue indeed: that is the color of my face as I write this.
> With due respect, Marilyn, allow me to shake you up: I have seen your
> work over the years and recall the portfolio you showed us whence you
> won your fellowship to the RPS. Did you need our help to choose the
> pictures you submitted? Not a bit! Now, how do you think this
> picture compares to your RSP portfolio? I hate to say this (and you
> probably know it too) but this picture is confused, with lines going
> in every which directions and there is no focal point for the eye.
> You are a terrific photographer, Marilyn! Never let your own
> critical judgement allow you to be satisfied with this level of work.
>
> - Pini Vollach - Street Shot
> Street shot... ??? ... Where is the street? What is this picture
> about? I look at it and I see a series of horizontal lines that have
> absolutely no meaning to me. Are they prison bars? Railings? A closed
> garage door? Is this an abstract shot? ... You, and only you, know.
> What is the significance of this image? All I know about it is
> extraneous. A scene shot in south Tel-Aviv. Does this tell me
> anything about the situation there? About the feelings of the
> photographer? Pini, with as much due respect as for Marilyn, I want
> to really shake you up. You have shown much better work. This should
> never have gone past your own critical sense.
>
> - Guy Glorieux - THE LOVERS
> The Lovers... Waoooo! (and with big caps, at that...!!). Now we are
> getting somewhere ... aren't we!!!?? What? A colour photograph
> turned B&W with the computer (well, I happen to be the only one who
> knows for sure because I did it). But it has been so badly tortured
> with CS that is looks like one of these continuously refurbished
> 80-year old millionnaire lady on the strips of some resort beach. Is
> this all you've got to show, Mr Glorieux? Clap, clap, clap! This is
> a failed attempt at turning a back-lighted sun-drenched picture into
> a front-lighted, dramatic sky picture. Dear fellow members, remember
> to keep this picture for your students so that they can
> understand what never, ever, ever do with CS2.
> To compound the situation, the photographer provides extended details
> in the form of a long history course without ever/ever mentionning the
> picture he is showing....!!??? Interesting details but quite
> irrelevant to the subject of the PF list.
>
> Now perhaps we should turn to those that have not shown any work this
> week on the Gallery.
> (The group is far too large, of course... The list below is only
> indicative of what could have been seen on the Gallery. ):
>
> - Herschel Mair - RPS Portfolio
> A first-class collection of pictures which presumably was deemed
> inappropriate for the PF Gallery by the photographer. Yet, he needs
> the assistance of PF list members in selecting the pictures he intends
> to submit to the Royal Photographic Society. Is this you,
> Herschel????? What??? If you can be a winner and a teacher, why do
> you need us to choose your portfolio. Only you can do it. I won't
> give you any help, but I sure hope you show us the final portfolio the
> moment you have been appointed a Fellow of the RPS...!
> - Rich Mason - Was a frequent contributor, now comments on the
> greenery of electronics..!! Nice...??
> - Alan Zinn - When did I last see an AZ panoramic?
> - Jeff Spirer - Where have you disappeared, Jeff?
> - Dave Small - Comes and goes (mostly goes...)
> - Jim Snarski - It was nice to see you last week, but where do you
> keep hiding.
> - Bob Talbot - Comes and goes (mostly goes)
> - All those that have left the list - Where have they all gone?
> - Those that have not submitted and are not mentionned should not feel
> exonerated from this curse...
>
> Dear friends, the PF list and the associated Gallery has slowly turned
> into a Social PhotoClub! We are in grave danger of disappearing. I
> have seen this process at work with one of the most excellent grouping
> of photographers in Montreal (the Zoum Club). The group has
> disappeared because its best members progressively left and, at some
> point, the core of excellent photographers was insufficient to keep
> the momentum. This is called the Grisham Law in the field of
> economics (google search for more info) and it leads to disaster.
>
> The story is that bad pictures chase good photographers out of
> the list and at some point, the process becomes irreversible. We are
> well into this process.
>
> Folks, ask yourself this question: How long will Andy keep running
> the PF if this is all that we can come up by way of visible
> work? Remember: Andy disappeared earlier this winter for health
> reasons and the list came to a virtual standstill.
>
> If we fail to revamp our commitment, each and everyone of us, to
> - posting truly excellent work on the gallery week after week; and
> - generating discussion and debate around these images; and
> - attracting once again new excellent members,
> then I would'nt even put a single kopeck that this list will still be
> around by the end of the year.
>
> And then, what do we do? Search for a better group? Gooood luck!
>
> Regards,
>
> Guy Glorieux
Guy, I made a similar, although shorter, rant about the gallery, the
postcard project and the sweet, superficial nature of the list a short
while ago and was largely ignored or scorned for my view about the
importance and the nature of the PhotoForum. I hope you don't suffer a
similar fate. I totally agree with your stand obviously.
Don
> Dear fellow members,
>
> Before covering the Gallery submissions this week - this should be
> easy, since there are only three pictures, one of them being mine - I
> want to express my outrage at what is currently happening with the PF
> list.
>
> What...???? Only three pictures were submitted to the Gallery this
> week. This has to be a joke! There was a time when it could take two
> weeks or even more before my submission eventually made it to the
> Gallery site.
>
> What .. is .. going .. on ... ????
>
> We find time to send postcards and discuss at nauseam the price and
> quality of printing postcards here and there through the web when
> these printing sites disappear by the dozen each week to be replaced
> by new names...
>
> Is this what the famous PhotoForum list run by an incredibly dedicated
> senior Faculty member of the world-respected Rochester Institute of
> Technology is all about????? I just can't believe it. Would I want
> to invite anyone of significance to join the list at this moment?
> Would any Faculty member encourage their students to do so? I don't
> think I need to write the answer!
>
> Just look at the three postings on the Gallery this week:
>
> - Marilyn Dalrymple - Green and Blue
> Green and Blue indeed: that is the color of my face as I write this.
> With due respect, Marilyn, allow me to shake you up: I have seen your
> work over the years and recall the portfolio you showed us whence you
> won your fellowship to the RPS. Did you need our help to choose the
> pictures you submitted? Not a bit! Now, how do you think this
> picture compares to your RSP portfolio? I hate to say this (and you
> probably know it too) but this picture is confused, with lines going
> in every which directions and there is no focal point for the eye.
> You are a terrific photographer, Marilyn! Never let your own
> critical judgement allow you to be satisfied with this level of work.
>
> - Pini Vollach - Street Shot
> Street shot... ??? ... Where is the street? What is this picture
> about? I look at it and I see a series of horizontal lines that have
> absolutely no meaning to me. Are they prison bars? Railings? A closed
> garage door? Is this an abstract shot? ... You, and only you, know.
> What is the significance of this image? All I know about it is
> extraneous. A scene shot in south Tel-Aviv. Does this tell me
> anything about the situation there? About the feelings of the
> photographer? Pini, with as much due respect as for Marilyn, I want
> to really shake you up. You have shown much better work. This should
> never have gone past your own critical sense.
>
> - Guy Glorieux - THE LOVERS
> The Lovers... Waoooo! (and with big caps, at that...!!). Now we are
> getting somewhere ... aren't we!!!?? What? A colour photograph
> turned B&W with the computer (well, I happen to be the only one who
> knows for sure because I did it). But it has been so badly tortured
> with CS that is looks like one of these continuously refurbished
> 80-year old millionnaire lady on the strips of some resort beach. Is
> this all you've got to show, Mr Glorieux? Clap, clap, clap! This is
> a failed attempt at turning a back-lighted sun-drenched picture into
> a front-lighted, dramatic sky picture. Dear fellow members, remember
> to keep this picture for your students so that they can
> understand what never, ever, ever do with CS2.
> To compound the situation, the photographer provides extended details
> in the form of a long history course without ever/ever mentionning the
> picture he is showing....!!??? Interesting details but quite
> irrelevant to the subject of the PF list.
>
> Now perhaps we should turn to those that have not shown any work this
> week on the Gallery.
> (The group is far too large, of course... The list below is only
> indicative of what could have been seen on the Gallery. ):
>
> - Herschel Mair - RPS Portfolio
> A first-class collection of pictures which presumably was deemed
> inappropriate for the PF Gallery by the photographer. Yet, he needs
> the assistance of PF list members in selecting the pictures he intends
> to submit to the Royal Photographic Society. Is this you,
> Herschel????? What??? If you can be a winner and a teacher, why do
> you need us to choose your portfolio. Only you can do it. I won't
> give you any help, but I sure hope you show us the final portfolio the
> moment you have been appointed a Fellow of the RPS...!
> - Rich Mason - Was a frequent contributor, now comments on the
> greenery of electronics..!! Nice...??
> - Alan Zinn - When did I last see an AZ panoramic?
> - Jeff Spirer - Where have you disappeared, Jeff?
> - Dave Small - Comes and goes (mostly goes...)
> - Jim Snarski - It was nice to see you last week, but where do you
> keep hiding.
> - Bob Talbot - Comes and goes (mostly goes)
> - All those that have left the list - Where have they all gone?
> - Those that have not submitted and are not mentionned should not feel
> exonerated from this curse...
>
> Dear friends, the PF list and the associated Gallery has slowly turned
> into a Social PhotoClub! We are in grave danger of disappearing. I
> have seen this process at work with one of the most excellent grouping
> of photographers in Montreal (the Zoum Club). The group has
> disappeared because its best members progressively left and, at some
> point, the core of excellent photographers was insufficient to keep
> the momentum. This is called the Grisham Law in the field of
> economics (google search for more info) and it leads to disaster.
>
> The story is that bad pictures chase good photographers out of
> the list and at some point, the process becomes irreversible. We are
> well into this process.
>
> Folks, ask yourself this question: How long will Andy keep running
> the PF if this is all that we can come up by way of visible
> work? Remember: Andy disappeared earlier this winter for health
> reasons and the list came to a virtual standstill.
>
> If we fail to revamp our commitment, each and everyone of us, to
> - posting truly excellent work on the gallery week after week; and
> - generating discussion and debate around these images; and
> - attracting once again new excellent members,
> then I would'nt even put a single kopeck that this list will still be
> around by the end of the year.
>
> And then, what do we do? Search for a better group? Gooood luck!
>
> Regards,
>
> Guy Glorieux
Guy, I made a similar, although shorter, rant about the gallery, the
postcard project and the sweet, superficial nature of the list a short
while ago and was largely ignored or scorned for my view about the
importance and the nature of the PhotoForum. I hope you don't suffer a
similar fate. I totally agree with your stand obviously.
Don
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