Keith, >>>But since I accept that photography is necessarily about manipulation to create a certain image, even if the goal of that manipulation is to create the scene that I see when I look at the sky, it's still manipulation.<<< Granted. It is the "tools" we use that force a certain degree or brand of manipulation. We can not overcome that fact or the failings of film or quality of equipment. The scene is still there, we can either record that scene or rendered it. It's our choice. If we intend to record it, then do so. If we intend to render the scene into an impression of what we feel or want, then do so. Allow the viewer to know the difference and integrity is maintained. At times it seems that when one argues the merits of manipulation, the word itself becomes the central point of discussion. It's not manipulation that bothers me, it's the presentation or intention of the photographer or editor that cause me problems. An ND grad is manipulation but not for the purpose of lying to the viewer, it's for the purpose of bringing to the viewer what we saw based on the fact we use tools that are incapable of doing the job on their own. This dilutes the "evils of manipulation" into categories we use the purpose of our work. >>>the photo is one of the pretty landscape photos meant as a fine art image to hang on somebody's wall, I'd have a hard time calling it unethical to put a rock there. If, however, you take a photo of the same thing for the Nature Conservancy in order to call attention to some aspect of the environment, then I would have a problem with that. I think that the context is key here.<<< It's ok to put the rock there. It's not okay IMO to say the rock was there, or to allow the viewer to believe the rock was there. You can drag an asteroid over and put it exactly on the mark you have decided adds the greatest impact (no pun intended) to your image as long as anyone who views the image knows you were not just sitting around with your camera having a beer, and all of sudden there was an asteroid impact and by golly it landed right where you wanted. Take care, Gregory david Stempel FIREFRAMEi m a g i n g
