> On Jun 8, 2018, at 4:46 AM, Simon Riggs <simon@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > > On 6 June 2018 at 19:22, Tom Lane <tgl@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: >> I wrote: >>> Yeah, somebody else made a similar point upthread. I guess we felt that >>> the proper procedure was obvious given the structure, but maybe not. >>> I could support adding text to clarify this, perhaps along the line of >> >> Hmm ... actually, there's another special case that's not discussed, >> which is what happens if a committee or core member wants to file a >> complaint against someone else? They certainly shouldn't get to rule >> on their own complaint. So maybe change "complaint against" to >> "complaint by or against" in my proposed addition, and then we're good. > > Which brings up the further complication of in which order are things > dealt with? > > If people file complaints against each other. Is there benefit in > rushing to file a complaint? > > "The Committee will inform the complainant and the alleged violator of > their decision at that time." That is unclear. > > Are complaints considered AFTER information has been collected from > both parties? If so, it doesn't matter who complains first, both > parties will get their say. > > But if the person being complained about only hears of the complaint > after judgement has been made this means there is benefit in being the > first to complain, which will encourage people to complain early so > they can get their boot in first. And also cause double the volume of > complaints, since it will be necessary to counter-complain in order > for the alleged violator to get their say. Earlier it says: "With the cooperation of all parties, the Committee will aim to complete the investigation in a period of two weeks from the receipt of the complaint.” which I interpret as “The CoC committee will collect information in order to make a fair decision” which would involve talking to the alleged violator(s). Perhaps we need an additional line that says the CoC committee will be reaching out to all parties involved in a complaint, just to be clear? > Would it not be better to consider arbitration as the first step in > dispute resolution? Do we need judgement by a committee as the first > step? Do we even have time for judges to judge? I have noticed it is in the nature of our community for people to try and work things out amongst themselves first before escalating to others, or to take one another aside to try and work things out. For the minor issues that crop up (and I know “minor” is relative), I hope that remains the case. I view the CoC as being in place for having a way to report abusive behavior and harassment and knowing we will ensure our community is a safe, fun place to collaborate. Jonathan
