Hello,
I do not intervene much on the list and am not an english native speaker, but here are some thoughts :
It seems to me that it is very hard to find good words (which should find their way in other languages) to summarize what is a decent conduct in an open source project.
Don't we all (or at least peaceful people) want to have a decent conduct, respectful of others, be it in open source projets, in conferences, or in life in general ?
Are we not going to end up with some sort of "human rights declaration" ? which by the way is already translated in many languages here - http://www.ohchr.org/EN/UDHR/Pages/SearchByLang.aspx
I am not saying that the declaration of human rights is perfect (I should re-read it) but are we going to write something better on this thread ? Shouldn't we better use all that energy to modify the declaration of human rights if there is an obvious problem with it ?
What is the goal of this ? reject people who have sub-par conduct ? have some kind of legal way to ban them from the project ? Is this like a "constitution" for the project ?
Anyone can participate in an open source project. Communication and human interactions, even hidden behind a computer screen, are key to this.
We should maybe try and fix things without needing to write complicated things to say that one's person freedom ends where another's begin.
I understand that some people sometimes feel rejected or blamed or hurt by writings or acts that are innapropriate to them or innapropriate in general.
If they can speak out, a healthy community will help them sort and maybe fix the problem.
If they cannot speak out, then maybe there needs to be someone in the community who has this "I am all ears and happy to try and protect everyone's freedom" attitude so that this person can try and sort things out anonymously.
I am maybe too naïve and put too much trust in the good sides of human nature, but I hope this helps in some way.
Jérôme
On Fri, Jan 22, 2016 at 8:47 PM, Luz Violeta <luz.stancati@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Hi David !
I totally share your toughts. I was following the whole CoC discussion, and as a transgender woman found myself with a lot of sadness. Because what happened in that discussion, happens in some other projects that I liked technically and used for a long time.
It's sad, because all those who participated in the discussion were people that are not exposed to the experiences we live (and by that, I mean everyone not fitting in the hegemony of that white guy in the IT industry), and by consequence they don't have sensibility/empathy to notice or understand what's out of place ... or these people are totally limited in how much of that sensibility/empathy can get. And that's the foundation on which the CoC is being written. I saw the CoC go down, down, and down in content and quality, not taking stances for nothing and falling into generalizations.
I truly hope that open source communities can move forward on the social aspect (the community), so more people can feel ok/safe to come by and put hands to the work without feeling exposed to violent situations. And, about some comments/signatures I saw floating around the CoC discussion, I will just say that this is not being about weak, pitiful, etc ... sometimes, you just get tired or you just cant have your armor all day on, all week on, all month on, all year on ... all life on, and sometimes you prefer to avoid these situations, and do something else in a safer enviroment, so you have a moment when you can take the damn armor off and simply worrying about having fun.
This is pretty much my personal opinion.
Hugs ~
P.S → even now, I'm kinda terrified of a shitstorm in my first mail to the mailing list ... but definitely this spark of hope made me come forward and say something, dunno.
On 01/22/2016 04:00 AM, Rajeev Bhatta wrote:
On Friday 22 January 2016 10:55 AM, David E. Wheeler wrote:
Fellow PostgreSQLers,Hi David, whatever be the race of the select few who built the CoC, the categorization of them as white is inappropriate.. The CoC is meant to be allowing free communication across all members of the community irrespective of their color, race, sexuality, gender, nationality or for that matter whatever their personal viewpoint is.
I can’t help that there are a whole lot of white guys working on this document, with very little feedback from the people who it’s likely to benefit (only exception I spotted in a quick scan was Regina; sorry if I missed you). I suspect that most of you, like me, have never been the target of the kinds os behaviors we want to forbid. Certainly not to the level of many women, transgendered, and people of color I know of personally, in this community and others, who have. If those people are not speaking up here, I suspect it’s because they don’t expect to be heard. A bunch of white guys who run the project have decided what it’s gonna be, and mostly cut things out since these threads started.
But a *whole* lot of thought has gone into the creation of CoCs by the people who need them, and those who care about them. They have considered what sorts of things should be covered, what topics specifically addressed, and how to word them so as to enable the most people possible to feel safe, and to appropriately address issues when they inevitably arise, so that people continue to feel safe.
So I’d like to propose that we not try to do this ourselves. Instead, I propose that we take advantage of the ton of thought others have already put into this, and simply:
* Follow the example of many other successful communities (Swift, Mono, Rails, and 10,000 others) and adopt the open-source Contributor Covenant, unmodified.
http://contributor-covenant.org
* Put this document in the root directory of the project as CODE_OF_CONDUCT.md, so that anyone who wants to contribute can. It should also be listed on the main web site and referenced from appropriate places (such as the mail lists pages).
* Spell out a policy and procedure for enforcement and include it as a separate document, again in the Git rep and on the site. The reporting address should be included in the Covenant. The Covenant web site has links to a number of existing guides we ought to crib from.
Best,
David
Additionally the CoC emails were sent to the entire group so it was open for all. I did not read the remainder of the email as classifying someone by anything is inappropriate.
Thanks
Regards
Rajeev
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