Ok thx I have got it thx to David and Scott for the links I now know why I couldn't find them as I was looking for blocks rather than page damn synonyms and to Eric thx for the criticism but yea I failed English so I know my punctuation is bad unless I concentrate and I am to busy to do that so for you Eric here is a full stop. (that was a joke not a shot at you I understand what you are saying but yeah) I have also learnt and also Richard pointed out just not in so many words the difference in support from a open source community compared to a non open source company is that the people who give support in open source are opinionated rather than concise meaning they will give you their opinion rather than answering the question Regards Kelvan ---------------------------(end of broadcast)--------------------------- TIP 6: explain analyze is your friend