Hello Guys, thanks for you answers
Now I have a clearer idea of the mathematics in the kernel and I understand the views expressed, for now I will investigate more in the memory subsystem
very thank you.El jue., 3 oct. 2019 a las 11:00, <kernelnewbies-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> escribió:
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: Do I need strong mathematical bases to work in the memory
subsystem? (Ruben Safir)
2. Re: Do I need strong mathematical bases to work in the memory
subsystem? (Valdis Kl=?utf-8?Q?=c4=93?=tnieks)
3. Re: Do I need strong mathematical bases to work in the memory
subsystem? (Ruben Safir)
4. Re: Do I need strong mathematical bases to work in the memory
subsystem? (Greg KH)
5. Re: Do I need strong mathematical bases to work in the memory
subsystem? (Ruben Safir)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2019 21:47:42 -0400
From: Ruben Safir <ruben@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: kernelnewbies@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: Do I need strong mathematical bases to work in the memory
subsystem?
Message-ID: <919b3d12-5d7e-73f1-d53f-b6a8463bf50b@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
On 9/30/19 1:06 AM, Valdis Kl?tnieks wrote:
> On Sun, 29 Sep 2019 17:48:43 -0500, CRISTIAN ANDRES VARGAS GONZALEZ said:
>
>> Hello good morning, to be developed from the kernel do I need to have good
>> math bases? I want to help in the ram memory subsystem and I have that
>> doubt thank you.
> Depends what you mean by "strong math basics". You'll *definitely* need to
> understand decimal/hexadecimal/binary/octal and how to convert between
> them. Understanding algebra is useful.
>
> If you've had some intro to complexity theory so you understand why an O(N^2)
> algorithm is usually worse than one that's O(N log N), that helps. Also,
> knowing enough computing theory to understand what a finite state machine is,
> and why to use one, and how to write code to implement one, is useful.
>
> You *probably* don't need calculus or deep number theory or a lot of other
> pure math.
I've heard this for years and when I went back for my PhD and Masters
degree in comp sci, I found out, low and behold, this is just not true.
If you hope to do anything that is not elementry, you need serious math
for the algorithms, not to mention to complete the jobs being done.
Knowing math is the real key to unlocking to potential of the power of
computational mathmatics.
--
So many immigrant groups have swept through our town
that Brooklyn, like Atlantis, reaches mythological
proportions in the mind of the world - RI Safir 1998
http://www.mrbrklyn.com
DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS - RI Safir 2002
http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software
http://www.brooklyn-living.com
Being so tracked is for FARM ANIMALS and extermination camps,
but incompatible with living as a free human being. -RI Safir 2013
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Wed, 02 Oct 2019 23:35:52 -0400
From: "Valdis Kl=?utf-8?Q?=c4=93?=tnieks" <valdis.kletnieks@xxxxxx>
To: Ruben Safir <ruben@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Cc: kernelnewbies@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: Do I need strong mathematical bases to work in the memory
subsystem?
Message-ID: <31773.1570073752@turing-police>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
On Wed, 02 Oct 2019 21:47:42 -0400, Ruben Safir said:
> I've heard this for years and when I went back for my PhD and Masters
> degree in comp sci, I found out, low and behold, this is just not true.
The question was specific to *kernel* development.
Look around. Does Linus have a PhD? How many people at the last Kernel Plumber's
or Kernel Summit have PhDs?
I'm willing to bet that there's very few PhD's in CS listed in MAINTAINERS. And
those that are, are probably coincidental...
> If you hope to do anything that is not elementry, you need serious math
> for the algorithms, not to mention to complete the jobs being done.
>
> Knowing math is the real key to unlocking to potential of the power of
> computational mathmatics.
If you're doing that sort of mathematics *inside the kernel*, there's probably something
wrong with your overall design.
Just sayin'.
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Message: 3
Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2019 23:42:04 -0400
From: Ruben Safir <ruben@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: kernelnewbies@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: Do I need strong mathematical bases to work in the memory
subsystem?
Message-ID: <0a9418d0-bef3-8631-4c18-b5a31fdd1129@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
On 10/2/19 11:35 PM, Valdis Kl?tnieks wrote:
> On Wed, 02 Oct 2019 21:47:42 -0400, Ruben Safir said:
>
>> I've heard this for years and when I went back for my PhD and Masters
>> degree in comp sci, I found out, low and behold, this is just not true.
>
> The question was specific to *kernel* development.
Actually yes
>
> Look around. Does Linus have a PhD? How many people at the last Kernel Plumber's
> or Kernel Summit have PhDs?
>
Linus has a Masters in Comp Sci, not that he is the greatest engineer ever.
> I'm willing to bet that there's very few PhD's in CS listed in MAINTAINERS. And
> those that are, are probably coincidental...
>
I can't testify to that, but there are ton of Master Degree coders and a
lot of mathamaticians.
General plumbing is not needed, but predictive trees, and crypto
certainly do and some hardware problems need calc, or even integration.
The harder the job, the more math is needed.
>> If you hope to do anything that is not elementry, you need serious math
>> for the algorithms, not to mention to complete the jobs being done.
>>
>> Knowing math is the real key to unlocking to potential of the power of
>> computational mathmatics.
>
> If you're doing that sort of mathematics *inside the kernel*, there's probably something
> wrong with your overall design.
>
Maybe, but I don't think so. And the hardware is getting more exotic.
> Just sayin'.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Kernelnewbies mailing list
> Kernelnewbies@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
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>
--
So many immigrant groups have swept through our town
that Brooklyn, like Atlantis, reaches mythological
proportions in the mind of the world - RI Safir 1998
http://www.mrbrklyn.com
DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS - RI Safir 2002
http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software
http://www.brooklyn-living.com
Being so tracked is for FARM ANIMALS and extermination camps,
but incompatible with living as a free human being. -RI Safir 2013
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2019 09:00:58 +0200
From: Greg KH <greg@xxxxxxxxx>
To: Ruben Safir <ruben@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Cc: kernelnewbies@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: Do I need strong mathematical bases to work in the memory
subsystem?
Message-ID: <20191003070058.GA1814133@xxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
On Wed, Oct 02, 2019 at 11:42:04PM -0400, Ruben Safir wrote:
> On 10/2/19 11:35 PM, Valdis Kl?tnieks wrote:
> >> If you hope to do anything that is not elementry, you need serious math
> >> for the algorithms, not to mention to complete the jobs being done.
> >>
> >> Knowing math is the real key to unlocking to potential of the power of
> >> computational mathmatics.
> >
> > If you're doing that sort of mathematics *inside the kernel*, there's probably something
> > wrong with your overall design.
> >
>
> Maybe, but I don't think so. And the hardware is getting more exotic.
"more complex" does not mean "needs more math. Look at the new USB4
spec, and the patches posted to start adding support for that to the
kernel. No "math" in there at all other than very simple stuff.
And no one can say that USB for is not "serious", so I agree with
Vladis, a deep mathmatical background is not needed for almost all of
the kernel. It's just simple C code, nothing to be afraid of.
greg k-h
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2019 06:55:50 -0400
From: Ruben Safir <ruben@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: kernelnewbies@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: Do I need strong mathematical bases to work in the memory
subsystem?
Message-ID: <7374125a-646f-7057-347b-f17ef51e9865@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
On 10/3/19 3:00 AM, Greg KH wrote:
> USB4
> spec, and the patches posted to start adding support for that to the
> kernel. No "math" in there at all other than very simple stuff.
>
> And no one can say that USB for is not "serious", so I agree with
> Vladis, a deep mathmatical background is not needed for almost all of
> the kernel. It's just simple C code, nothing to be afraid of.
I wouldn't call that C code basic. Regardless, showing an example of a
driver that doesn't need math, and it might if you understood the high
level math, and your not aware of it, but predictive branching would
need it. You can not calculate simple interest efficiently without
calculus. This repeadely ends up being an issue of "if I don't know it,
I don't need it", which is wrong. More math helps you every time. Math
is advanced logic. I can't tell you how many times I see folks brute
force their way to solutions that they should be using integration.
--
So many immigrant groups have swept through our town
that Brooklyn, like Atlantis, reaches mythological
proportions in the mind of the world - RI Safir 1998
http://www.mrbrklyn.com
DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS - RI Safir 2002
http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software
http://www.brooklyn-living.com
Being so tracked is for FARM ANIMALS and extermination camps,
but incompatible with living as a free human being. -RI Safir 2013
------------------------------
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