On Thu, Jan 18, 2018 at 11:11:45PM +0800, Yubin Ruan wrote: > On Tue, Jan 16, 2018 at 04:24:41PM -0500, valdis.kletnieks@xxxxxx wrote: > > On Tue, 16 Jan 2018 22:15:39 +0530, inventsekar said: > > > > > PS - when I send mail to this DL, I thought I would receive my own > > > mail(similar to Google groups DL), as I am already member of the DL, but I > > > am not getting my own mail, so I get confusion whether my mail was sent or > > > not. On the subscription page, I looked for any options, but no luck. > > > Please suggest > > I am using gmail but never notice the behaviors you stated. Thanks for your > information. See below: > > > The tl;dr: If you really care, you can have the list send you a "Your message was posted" > > confirmation. Go here: https://lists.kernelnewbies.org/mailman/listinfo/kernelnewbies > > and login (you'll need the password the list has for you - if you don't have it, it's > > in the monthly reminder or you can ask it to send you a copy). > > > > The gory details: > > > > A long known issue with GMail. Basically, what should happen is this: > > > > 1) You send e-mail. At some point, a Message-ID header gets added, usually by > > the "Mail submission server". For the one I'm replying to, the server was one > > of Gmail's so it tacked on: > > > > Message-id: <CAJd9=037m-jHxR-Yz4DkQvukahPE3cK1LV_HcWJRk31+=Vc-pw@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> > > > > The important thing here is that it's supposed to be (a) netwise unique and (b) > > remains the same across the lifetime of the message. > > > > 2) So say your mail was to the list, and a cc: to several people directly (the > > usual state of affairs for Linux kernel development - as "reply all" is the > > preferred way of doing things. If I was listed directly, then I'll get two > > copies - once for the direct copy and once from the list. (And yes, a mailing > > list is supposed to preserve the value in most cases - those interested in the > > gory details are referred to RFC 5322, section 3.6.4) > > > > 3) And that same Message-ID should be on both copies that I receive, which > > means I can do duplicate suppression by simply saying "Have I seen this > > Message-ID before?" > > > > Works great, except.... > > > > When GMail sends your *outbound* mail, it remembers that Message-ID - which means > > that when your own copy comes back from the posting to the list, GMail says "Hey, > > I've seen this one before" and duplicate suppresses it. So one outbound copy > > goes by and you don't see it, and then the other one gets munched, so you don't > > see that one either. Whoops. > > By "gets munched" you mean "get deleted", right? But why would the other one > gets deleted if Gmail suppress the duplicate message? Is this your > configuration fault? > > > And yes, they know about it - me and some other email experts gave Google grief > > about it when it was still in alpha/beta. But they didn't listen, for reasons only they > > understand(*) > > > > To make life even *more* complicated, even though my copy of posts to the list gets > > auto-deduped by GMail as it comes back, I still get a copy - because some AI in there > > has figured out "Oh, he's a list subscriber, so when he posts, we'll remember the message-ID, > > but also generate a copy right back into his inbox so he gets his list copy anyhow even > > though we already know we're going to auto-dedup it". Of course, this isn't a > > settable, nor is it very obvious what causes GMail's AI to realize this - so I have > > some lists that I get back a GMail-looped courtesy copy and some I don't. > > Hmm... I didn't noticed which list works and which not yet (I was not aware of > the situation where duplicate message with same Message-ID get suppressed by > Gmail previously). Is kernel newbie affected, or any other lists? Oh now I observe the behavior on std-discussion (hosted on isocpp.org). Gmail seems to automatically delete mails from the mailing list server if I Cc/Bcc myself a copy (if the server has ever sent me a copy, which I am not sure). But I still get a copy, and things still work smoothly. Yubin _______________________________________________ Kernelnewbies mailing list Kernelnewbies@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx https://lists.kernelnewbies.org/mailman/listinfo/kernelnewbies
