Hi Greg, thanks for the quick answer! Greg KH <gregkh@xxxxxxx> writes: > On Fri, May 20, 2011 at 04:13:24PM +0300, Kalle Valo wrote: >> We have been thinking about how to get ath6kl out from staging and get >> it to a first class citizen under drivers/net/wireless. There's quite a >> lot of work to do get ath6kl cleaned up and the prospect of doing all >> that through the staging-next tree wasn't that exciting. We would be >> sending hundreds of patches and it would take a long time to cleanup the >> driver. And the disconnection from the wireless core development also >> sounded very daunting (cfg80211 API changes etc.). > > This sounds like, "We don't like the kernel development model, it > requires us to break everything up into small patches and show our work > to everyone." > > Hopefully that is not the case here. Trust me, that's not the case. Soon we will submit the driver for review to linux-wireless list and then everyone are more than welcome to review everything, down to the every bit in the driver. And seriously, what good does it take to review some ugly patches about removing OS abstractions, private user space interfaces, fixing coding style and removing odd directory structures? Wouldn't it be better, and easier, to review a smaller, leaner and cleaned up driver? At least I would prefer that. And that's what we are going to do, once our tiger team has finished the cleanup. >> So we started to find a faster way to clean up ath6kl and ended up with >> a setup where we would have a separate tree in kernel.org just for >> ath6kl clean up. Once we think that the driver is ready, we will take >> the driver from the cleanup tree and submit as a single patch for >> review. As we will submit the driver as a single commit, history doesn't >> matter and this makes it possible to use not so perfect patches in our >> tree and save a lot of time. > > Yup, that is the case :( See above. And if you want to have a reason, it's about the staging area is not really an easy place for active wireless driver development. Don't get me wrong, staging is good for drivers which don't have that active development. But ath6kl won't belong to that group anymore and I would like to take some shortcuts to save time and focus on the real thing, which is improving quality of the driver and adding more features. >> During the transition period we will still fix the important bugs in the >> staging driver, and naturally port them to the cleaned up driver. But >> once the cleaned up driver is accepted we plan to remove the staging driver. >> >> We already started the cleanup and created ath6kl-clean git tree here: >> >> http://git.kernel.org/?p=linux/kernel/git/kvalo/ath6kl-cleanup.git;a=summary >> >> The tree is based on wireless-testing and I have cherry picked missing >> ath6kl patches from staging-next tree. Also the driver is already moved >> to drivers/net/wireless/ath/ath6kl directory to make it easy to submit >> the driver for review once it's ready. >> >> Everyone is free to send patches and participate in the ath6kl cleanup. >> As we don't want to clutter linux-wireless mailing list with hundreds of >> useless "staging" patches, please send the patches to kvalo@xxxxxxxxxx >> (have to use my private email due to buggy email servers) and I will >> apply them. >> >> We have irc channel #ath6kl on freenode where some of the ath6kl devs >> hang out. Feel free to make any questions also there, just give enough >> time for people to answer. But naturally linux-wireless mailing list is >> the best place to ask questions. >> >> Also the wiki page contains some information and we will start adding more: >> >> http://wireless.kernel.org/en/users/Drivers/ath6kl >> >> Thoughts? > > Why don't I just delete the whole driver from the tree right now as you > all don't seem to understand how to develop stuff within the community > and want to do it all external until some magic "it is done" time when > you want us to take it back? Because there are currently users using the driver from staging. That would be a disservice for them. We help our users better if we keep the staging driver around and alive until the cleaned up version has been merged. > That's not nice at all. For who? I think for users and for the community it's better that they get a proper, and properly supported, upstream driver as soon as possible. The timeframe is something like having a cleaned up version in few weeks. But working with staging it would take months to get to the same state. > Don't worry about "cluttering" up the mailing list, send them to me, and > to the driver devel mailing list, and I will take them just fine. I'm talking about linux-wireless mailing list. And yes, I really think that sending patches like removing A_MEMSET() is cluttering the mailing list. I would rather see wireless hackers doing something productive than reading patches like that. And if someone really likes reading patches like that (I don't) then they are all available in ath6k-cleanup git tree. > Have you somehow been finding that I not accept patches quick enough? Yes, you have been accepting the patches quickly, that's not the problem. But when we talk about cleaning up the driver properly the flow of patches increases significantly, at least hundreds of patches from different people working concurrently. So we would have a huge ping-pong of patches which conflict each other, you don't like or someone else doesn't like and has to be submitted again. Managing all that will take a lot of time and I would rather use that time better improving the driver than just (re)submitting cleanup patches. So to be more clear: I expect that if the cleanup would happen in staging-next tree it would take months to finish but doing it in a separate tree we can do it in weeks. I'm guessing that we will have a first version of the driver ready for review in three weeks or so. > Do you not like the fact that others comment, review, and contribute > patches for this driver? Oh yes, I like all that very much, no question about that. I like it so much that I'm taking extra effort to get the driver to wireless-testing as soon as possible and start getting the support from the Linux wireless community. Because, let's face it, wireless community doesn't care about staging drivers. Staging is great for some type of drivers, but a very difficult place for a wireless driver under active development. For example, cfg80211 API changes would be difficult to handle because wireless-testing would have too old ath6kl and staging-next would have too old wireless core. Just think all the pain we (Atheros developers) would have to suffer. I really don't want to waste any time trying to get things working between the two trees. > This sounds like a very big step back for your development effort, I > strongly advise you to not do this at all. I understand why you are worried. But we have our "top men" working on this and I'm sure the end result will be good :) Did my explonation above decrease your worries at all? Kalle -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-wireless" in the body of a message to majordomo@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
