Thank you Wens for cc'ing Johannes One of the issues [1] reported with one the openwrt devices ... my understanding / experience is that if there is NO-IR basically clients will not connect (I can't think of a use case where there's prior traffic) [1] https://github.com/openwrt/openwrt/issues/18079 -----Original Message----- From: Chen-Yu Tsai <wens@xxxxxxxxxx> Sent: 05 March 2025 15:11 To: rmandrad@xxxxxxxxx Cc: Nicolas Cavallari <nicolas.cavallari@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>; Dennis Bland <dennis@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>; Ping-Ke Shih <pkshih@xxxxxxxxxxx>; linux-wireless@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx; wireless-regdb@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx; Johannes Berg <johannes@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> Subject: Re: wireless-regdb: Allow 6ghz in the US Cc-ing Johannes since I think this discussion also involves what cfg80211 does. On Wed, Mar 5, 2025 at 10:36 PM <rmandrad@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: > > See below > > > [1] Beacon Hints > " cfg80211 has a feature called beacon hinting to assist cfg80211 in allowing a card to lift passive-scan and no-beaconing flags. Passive-scan flags are used on channels to ensure that an interface will not issue a probe request out. The no-ir flag exists to allow regulatory domain definitions to disallow a device from initiating radiation of any kind and that includes using beacons, so for example AP/IBSS/Mesh/GO interfaces would not be able to initiate communication on these channels unless the channel does not have this flag. If either of these flags are present on a channel a device is prohibited from initiating communication on cfg80211." Doesn't this do what the FCC rules say? No initiating communications unless prior traffic has been seen on the channel for client devices. > ... > > " It is also important to note that the Linux kernel beacon hint mechanism only trusts beacons from 802.11 APs, not Mesh or IBSS." > > [1[ > https://wireless.docs.kernel.org/en/latest/en/developers/regulatory/pr > ocessing_rules.html > > My experience is with Openwrt and APs. We have users in the US > complaining that they can't use 6GHz due to NO-IR OK. It would have helped if you explained that it is the AP side that is not working. Regarding that, AFAIK we don't really have a way to specify different rules for APs vs client devices. AFAIK all the power limits written in the database are for client devices, because clients seem to have more restrictions. ChenYu > -----Original Message----- > From: Nicolas Cavallari <nicolas.cavallari@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> > Sent: 05 March 2025 12:19 > To: wens@xxxxxxxxxx; rmandrad@xxxxxxxxx > Cc: Dennis Bland <dennis@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>; Ping-Ke Shih > <pkshih@xxxxxxxxxxx>; linux-wireless@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx; > wireless-regdb@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > Subject: Re: wireless-regdb: Allow 6ghz in the US > > On 05/03/2025 09:58, Chen-Yu Tsai wrote: > > On Wed, Mar 5, 2025 at 4:23 PM <rmandrad@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: > >> > >> That is not specifying NO-IR which basically is denying any 6Ghz in > >> the US what it means in my opinion is > >> > >> > >> > >> Client devices (like phones, tablets, laptops) need to find Wi-Fi networks before they can join them. > >> > >> One-way devices do this is by sending out probe requests. These are little "Are you there?" signals that ask nearby access points (routers) to respond, so the device knows which networks are available. > > > > Section 122 says: The Commission therefore only permits a client > > device to send a probe request to an access point after it has > > detected a transmission from the access point. The client device > > will be required to send the probe request on the same frequency as > > the access point's transmission. > > > > I think this translates to "passive scanning only", which is what > > NO_IR is meant to specify. NO-IR was previously called PASSIVE-SCAN, > > and was renamed when it was merged with NO-IBSS. > > > > Maybe the kernel's implementation needs work? I'm not a WiFi person > > so I really don't know all the details. > > > >> That is why drivers use the non 6Ghz for allowing clients to > >> identify the router has 6ghz capabilities… I don’t think is for > >> wireless-regdb to take over the HW router compliance and > >> certification which is what 122. is about > > > > No, section 122 is definitely about client devices, which is what > > Linux devices are. > > No, Linux also supports access point, IBSS, OBSS and mesh, not to mention monitor injection. > > If you remove NO-IR, you are allowing Linux to create access points, ad-hoc and mesh networks on the channel without conditions. >
