On 02/24/2016 11:53 AM, covici@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
I got a more definite answer from someone in kernel development -- I cannot remember who -- but he said that the serial driver should be written like a hardware device driver and obey all the appropriate protocols thereof, so if we can figure out, say, how the uart driver registers the port and have the speakup driver do the exact same thing, maybe this would work much better. John G Heim <jheim@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:Well, as I said, I've been relying more and more upon a braille display and software speech. I can't say it's unfair to say linux is no better than Microsoft because I think in this context, it's comparing apples and oranges. IMO, it's neiher fair or unfair. It's like saying a dolphin is no better than an oak tree. Well, at what? If you want linux to do something, you have to do it yourself or maybe pay someone to do it for you. On the other hand, I would say that developers are ethically required to allow accessibility software to work with their code and the linux kernel developers have been woefully inadequate in that regard. A year or two ago, I took the time to drill down through the functions the speakup code was calling to "steal" the serial port. I found it led to a function inside the main kernel code (not in staging) that could never return a success. I asked about it on the kernel developers list. If speakup isn't accessing the serial port the right way, what is the right way? The answers I got were BS. The speakup code is not very well written, the whole thing should be moved to user space, etc. My reaction was like, okay, maybe, but can someone please answer the question? But apparently not. It was infuriating. That's when I started posting kernels with the function call commented out. The whole thing just makes no sense. Why even include code that is deliberately disabled? Samuel is probably freaking out if he has read this far. Someone, probably him, went through a lot of work just to get speakup in staging. And, after all, software speech does work. That is not trivial. On 02/24/2016 10:05 AM, Karen Lewellen wrote:May i ask how one finds contingency plans for your ears, your brain, and your processing? smiles. I am not following this debate closely, but it certainly supports my worries about Linux as a main computing solution. If someone is going to remove the door to functionality, or decide for me how I personally accommodate my body differences, then they are no different than say Microsoft. Access is a human right in some places, not a feature. defining that access begins and ends with the individual, which is why the best access uses a foundation allowing for many ways in so to speak. Going back to the corner now, Kare On Wed, 24 Feb 2016, John G Heim wrote:Well, first of all, I didn't mean to say you shouldn't use a serial hardware synth. However,IMO, you would be wise to consider contingency plans. If your livelihood depends on that serial synth, you'd be wise to begin examining your alternatives. Also, I can't promise to debug the kernel code. When I said check the syslog, I meant for you to check the syslog. If I can find the time to take a look at it, I certainly will but I can't promise that. I suspect that what's happening is that when speakup tries to "steal" the serial port, the return value is no longer just null. When I last traced back the functions that speakup was calling to steal the serial port, it was bullstuff. Speakup called a function that did nothing -- which isn't the fault of the speakup developers. I suspect that those functions now do something -- probably not what we want but something. It has probably been a year since I last posted a rant on this list about the linux kernel developers. As I write this, I find myself getting all worked up about it again. The one good thing about Trump running for President is that now I have someone I find more arrogant and irritating than the linux kernel development team. On 02/24/2016 08:29 AM, Tony Baechler wrote:On 2/23/2016 6:31 AM, John G Heim wrote:You should check the syslog. There are almost certainlymessages in > therereporting what is happening. I'll try to compile 4.3 kernelsfor ubuntu > anddebian over the next few days. I had planned to automate theprocess. > Everytime my ubuntu machines download a new kernel, generate a newpatched > kernelpackage. I never got around to it though. I was using a sedcommand tocomment out the line that caused serial synths to not work so that automation was possible. Part of the problem here is that Ihave kind ofgiven up on serial synths myself. I have been depending moreand more on > thecombination of a braille display and software speech. It seemsto me > thatusing a hardware speech synth is going against the grain these days.As Karen and others have pointed out, we all have our own personal speech preferences. In my case, I have multiple reasons for wanting serial speech to work. I find it easier to hear and understand for one thing. There are some bugs in the DECtalk Express module which might be easily fixed, but the last unpatched kernel I know of that actually worked was 2.6.32 which is no longer supported. Anyway, as requested, here is the dmesg output. I don't see anything helpful. I did the following: service espeakup stop rmmod speakup_soft modprobe speakup_dectlk rmmod speakup_dectlk rmmod speakup modprobe speakup_soft espeakup [ 11.336314] r8169 0000:02:00.0 eth0: link up [ 11.336325] IPv6: ADDRCONF(NETDEV_CHANGE): eth0: link becomes ready [ 27.013903] releasing synth soft [ 27.013975] unregistered /dev/softsynth [ 32.824006] speakup: unregistering synth device /dev/synth [ 56.630004] speakup: module is from the staging directory, the quality is unknown, you have been warned. [ 56.630896] input: Speakup as /devices/virtual/input/input7 [ 56.631031] initialized device: /dev/synth, node (MAJOR 10, MINOR 25) [ 56.631055] speakup 3.1.6: initialized [ 56.631057] synth name on entry is: dectlk [ 56.639855] speakup_dectlk: module is from the staging directory, the quality is unknown, you have been warned. [ 56.640036] synth probe [ 56.640039] Ports not available, trying to steal them [ 56.640042] Unable to allocate port at 3f8, errno -16 [ 56.640044] Dectalk Express: not found [ 56.640045] dectlk: device probe failed [ 67.012005] speakup: unregistering synth device /dev/synth [ 70.985966] speakup: module is from the staging directory, the quality is unknown, you have been warned. [ 70.986851] input: Speakup as /devices/virtual/input/input8 [ 70.986983] initialized device: /dev/synth, node (MAJOR 10, MINOR 25) [ 70.987006] speakup 3.1.6: initialized [ 70.987008] synth name on entry is: dectlk [ 70.987055] speakup_soft: module is from the staging directory, the quality is unknown, you have been warned. [ 70.987193] synth probe [ 70.987230] initialized device: /dev/softsynth, node (MAJOR 10, MINOR 26)_______________________________________________ Speakup mailing list Speakup@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup_______________________________________________ Speakup mailing list Speakup@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup
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