On Wed, Apr 08, 2009 at 03:03:19PM -0700, Gaijin wrote: > On Wed, Apr 08, 2009 at 01:03:23PM +1000, Daniel Dalton wrote: > > I couldn't agree with that. Debian provides brltty, orca and now speakup > > modules, and just recently yasr. Emacspeak is also in the repo... > > <smiles> And if you don't have a braille display, or have been > even granted the grace of being taught braille by The State? Use one of the other alternatives: yasr, emacspeak and speakup... > Sorry, I just can't see spending every waking moment learning > how to keep Debian unstable/Sid working while I'm still playing catchup > from when Woody had just been released, and I had just started learning Use lenny, when I was using lenny when it was "testing", I had very few problems. I'm still using lenny now, and it is working very well... I'll probably update to testing in the next few weeks... > Linux. A lot of things have happened since I was punching in monitor > frequencies to get X11 working and looking for howtos on how to get the tasksel can handle that... > system to make a 56K call to my ISP. It's like, "Oh! there's already a > pon and poff script already on the system for this. Wish I'd known that > 6 months ago when I was tweaking settings in pppd.conf." Well, you have to know how to research to find answers to questions... :-) And there is a lot of good documentation out there, howtos, man pages, manuals, and other web pages... And then you have mailing lists or irc channels to talk to a human. > Unless you already know exactly what you're doing and exactly > where all the information is spread all across the internet, and are Try google, it's quite an amazing tool. :) And debian.org > willing to spend every waking moment keeping track of all the changes, I > still can't recommend Debian for new users. Your perspectives are Well recommend stable. > coming from the top of the mountain, not the bottom. or from somewhere > onn the slope where everyone else is. You likely *already know* how to > get out of trouble when something completely hoses the system, or you I do, but at the begining when I began using linux, I had to read documentation to learn these skills. Just like you would have or had to. > possess hardware like braille terminals that give you added ways to > access the system. I do, that's a fair point. I read a reply to this thread saying you own a hardware synth...? So you have tools that can help as well... Software speech as well has come a long way, but your right, probably won't read out the boot process for you like brltty... > I only have the2.6.18 Shane kernel to count on when > the latest upgrade crashes on bootup, because there are no more speakup Why? There are plenty of newer kernels around... Or couldn't you build your own? > upgrades scheduled in Lenny, and I have to port to the never-ending > battle with Sid...or do you really think all this talk sounds like > English to a Fedora/Slackware/BSD/SuSE user or Linux newbie? Don't use sid. I'm not sure why you need to use sid? Of course I grab packages out of sid as I need them, but use lenny... > It's not like someone who's just gotten their Lenny CD from > cheapbytes, are even going to know what questions to ask to get info, let > alone know where to go, what to look for, and how to even possibly > manage to keep up with it all in an unstable version of Debian that may > not work from one day to the next, all while just trying to get it set > up and configured in the first place. Well, yes. Although researching is a useful tool. And a new user should be using stable... > Yes, I do have a problem with run-on sentences. <grins> I'm > just saying that Debian isn't the best platform to choose where new > technology like accessibility is concerned. Once a version goes stable, > Advances get locked out, and when you depend on those advances, Debian > is pretty much the worst system to count on. Very few things in > Debian are standard with the rest of the Linux world because of debconf > and dpkg dependencies. Debian is beginning to look like Windows where the So... When you need these advances, fetch them from unstable, or when you know how to get yourself out of trouble update to testing/sid. Your right though, the packages can be a bit dated in stable... > ability to get around what the maintainers are forcing everyone to do > is concerned. It's either "depend on Debian to do it or go without," > a'la Microsoft. Well, not quite, I've never had a problem with this. > a major stumbling block for the handicapped in an already difficult > environment. First, I don't think the term "handicapped" is a good one. Secondly, I disagree; what accessibility do you want? You have accessibility in stable, use that when you know how to use testing and get yourself out of trouble update and get accessibility advances. I've got to go, sorry I didn't get to all this, but it seems like a bit of grumbling to me, and that is not the best way to solve problems. Although you do make some valid points, debian stable has out dated packages, but this is what you get when you have a very "stable" release of something. So when you get the skills, take the pick: Use stable and have no problems, and miss out on the latest and greatest stuff, or update to something that may cause problems that I'll have to fix, but allows me to have the latest and greatest stuff... Daniel. >
