the following url is interesting reading. http://www.informit.com/articles/printerfriendly.asp?p=174156 consider for a moment what would happen to organisations such as the iso, ietf, and, irtf, and the like and the w3c, if long horn was swallowed up by the masses. -- Shaun Oliver "I refuse to have a battle of wits with an unarmed person." email: shaun.oliver at optusnet.com.au WEB: http://blindman.homelinux.org/~blindman/ IRC: irc.awesomechat.net:6666 IRCNICK: blindman