Why thank you, Ann!!! I've been restraining myself from making that comment all this time!!! If you have hand problems, I could see that the -h or -r might be a problem, but then, you'd have other problems as well. If you have a very slow old 386 or 486 it would be aggravating, but that would only be the tip of the iceberg as far as aggravation; I know because I started on an old 486 that took FOREVER to do anything. But the neat thing was: IT WOrKED, albeit with eternity rather than time as its reference!!! If you really hate it that much, and you can get used to the noise if it's in your bedroom, just leave it running most of the time. I rarely turn my computer off and only reboot when there's a problem or I'm switching kernels. It's interesting, though, to hear the different ways people do it. -- Cheryl "Where your treasure is, there will your heart be also."