They use an ms server? no wonder it's slow slow. I used to use a web host with two servers on the same line, a linux for php/mysql hosting, and a ms for asp/access. The ms server was about 100% slower and crashed more than the linux one. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Shaun Oliver" <shauno@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> To: <speakup at braille.uwo.ca> Sent: Sunday, May 05, 2002 1:58 AM Subject: Part 2 of my corrispondence with chriss. was RE: I swear to tell the truth, (fwd) > here's the second installment of my email conversation with chriss. from > freedon scientific. > > > -- > Shaun > > If little else, the brain is an educational toy. > -- Tom Robbins > EMAIL: shauno at goanna.net.au > ICQ: 76958435 > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 22:41:17 -0400 > From: Chris Hofstader <chrish at freedomscientific.com> > To: Shaun Oliver <shauno at goanna.net.au> > Subject: RE: I swear to tell the truth, (fwd) > > Hi, > > I have found all of the criticism sent from the SpeakUp list to be very > constructive and I didn't > feel attacked at all. I've often taken controversial positions and have > faced criticism from all sides. > > Freedom Scientific is using a MS based server for our ftp, Internet and > other network based needs. I can't really make a claim as to whether Linux, > MS or any of them are superior as I've little experience with IT. I've been > a system level hacker for many years but never wandered into the networking > arena. As it is distant from my area of expertise I cannot really comment > on why Freedom picked the MS solution over any of the others. > > An X-Windows screen reader would be an interesting challenge. I've explored > this as an opportunity and found there were a handful of nearly > insurmountable hurdles: > > The first notion was to make all UI objects self voicing. This had three > problems. The first is that not all widgets are used in a similar enough > fashion to create a generic speech and Braille solution. Second, self > voicing objects have the problem of delivering useful contextual > information - so I might be able to tell you that an OK button is in focus > but what are you agreeing to if you activate it? Finally, most comercial > X-Windows applications staticly link with the UI elements thus making my > self voicing ones inactive. > > The next approach was to look at the variety of X desktops. Again, we ran > into the problem of contextual information and staticly linked comercial > projects. Peter Korn's team at Sun seems to be doing a pretty good job with > making gnome talk which may turn into a truly usable solution. > > Finally, very few sysadmin types will install any special server software > for accessibility purposes. Yes, there is ADA and 508 but the anti-virus, > anti-hacker, security frenzied culture in the IT community today will not > budge to install software for a tiny percentage of their staff. > > As for the jobs issue: surely many blind folks are heading into software and > IT jobs. Sadly, this is a small minority of the 2 million (NFB's number) > blind people in the US. The overwhelming majority of our new constomers are > getting their first job ever. Many of these people have been steered away > >from the technical professions by well meaning special education people who > just don't understand technology very well. > > Others, people like me, are those who go blind in their mid-thirties. I was > fortunate, I had 20 years experience developing software and Ted Henter > offered me a job. Most, though, had far more pedestrian careers (plumbers, > truck drivers, secretaries, etc.) and have little or no experience using > computers and a huge level of fear of a computer. These people want to get > back to work but haven't the foggiest idea of where to start looking. These > people will never become IT professionals but I've seen too many great turn > around stories to believe that they won't learn to use a computer > competently enough to get a good job in a wide variety of fields. > > Personally, I find that Sun will probably post the greatest challenge to MS' > lead in the accessibility world. Marney Beard, Peter Korn and the rest of > their gang are very smart and talented people. With a very small budget, > they have made tremendous progress with Java and gnome. The Java solution > is interesting as well, Sun provides the source to the Accessibility Bridge > and I know it has been ported to Macintosh and assume someone has done the > job for Linux as well. A creative, multi-platform, Java screen reader might > be a strong entry into government agencies and academic institutions. > > Thanks, > cdh > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Shaun Oliver [mailto:shauno at goanna.net.au] > Sent: Thursday, May 02, 2002 10:07 PM > To: chrish at freedomscientific.com > Subject: RE: I swear to tell the truth, (fwd) > > > Hight Chriss, > Let me point out a few things in the body of your own message. > Please read below. > > > -- > Shaun > > If little else, the brain is an educational toy. > -- Tom Robbins > EMAIL: shauno at goanna.net.au > ICQ: 76958435 > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 10:06:15 -0400 > From: Chris Hofstader <ChrisH at Freedomscientific.com> > To: 'Ryan Mann' <rmann at rmisp.net> > Subject: RE: I swear to tell the truth, (fwd) > > Hello, > > Thanks for forwarding the thread on to me. I'm always happy to hear from > the open source, blinux community. > Here's the first mistake. > Although thereis a blinux community and we are a part of it, This is > comming from the speakup community. > > If you read my written testimony, I state clearly that there are a number of > good accessibility aids available for the Linux OS. I add that the Linux AT > software is written by a group of hard working volunteers. I do wish that > some of the open source vendors would start investing in accessibility the > way that Microsoft, IBM and Sun already do. With a reasonable level of > funding the volunteers could become professionals and not concern themselves > with doing the really cool work happening already and paying the bills too. > Your second mistake. Please don't confuse open source with free software. > and I did read your testimony in it's entirety and saw only the mention > that accessability aids for GNU/Linux do exist with the efforts put in by > hard working volunteers. > > If you also look at my resume (put in as Exhibit 1), you will see that, > along with Richard Stallman, I was the co-founder and president of League > for Programming Freedom. I have been a vocal advocate for Project GNU and > have worked on the defense of a number of companies being sued for patent > infringement and user interface copyright issues. > I commend that. However, if one wants to truely say that they stand out > >from the rest, why not "boldly go where no one has gone before" and code a > suitable screen reader for the xwindows system and make a killing? > Mr. Stallman never was against making a few dollars for your software, he > just has some very different ideas as to how the world of software should > work. > When it comes to accessibility, however, I believe the single most important > aspect is getting jobs for people with disabilities. With estimates for > unemployment among blind people running as high as 75% and with virtually > all potential employers requiring skills in MS Windows then it is essential > that adaptive technologies work in the environment that the consumers want. > In the commercial environment, Microsoft is the overwhelmingly dominant > source of Operating systems and, for a long time, Microsoft has invested > time and resources into accessibility and is the corporate leader in this > area. > I'd have to agree with this point also, but, it's not the only option out > there. > Sure we need microsoft to be able to function in the office environment > but, what about those of us that want to aspire to be admins of isps or > for that matter, maintain an existing one? > would you honestly use a microsoft product as an ftp or www or for that > matter dns server? > I wouldn't due to the fact that any microsoft product isn't relyable > enough for extended uptimes and the fact that alot of what microsoft does > during installs that screw with system settings require a reboot which is > unacceptable in that sort of situation. > Permitting incomplete or altered versions of the Microsoft operating systems > to be sold will reek havoc on a system level product like JAWS and all of > its competitors. I, therefore, stand behind my testimony entirely. > This point if by no one else is taken by me and I see what you're driving > at. > no matter what operating system one uses, one should not have to use a > broken system and wonder why the accessability software that is used on > that operating system doesn't work. > Having said that, I feel that some knowledge of computers either hardware > or software is necissary for blind or low vission users to get by. > This is probably why alot of us turn towards i.t. > By the way, there's alot to be said for editing a config file and > restarting the process. > But, again, having said all this, I'm not going to cut my nose off despite > my face, > I still need windows for some tasks and as a registered user of jaws, that > is my prefered screen reader under windows. > I hope these comments will be accepted as constructive critisism and not > seen as an attack on freedon scientific and it's product. > > Respectfully, > Cdh > > Chris Hofstader > VP, Software Engineering > Freedom Scientific, Inc. > 11800 31st Court N. > St. Petersburg, FL 33716 > PH: (727)803-8000 ext. 1061; (800)444-4443 > Fax:(727) 803-8001 > email: ChrisH at freedomscientific.com > Check out our website! www.freedomscientific.com > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Ryan Mann [mailto:rmann at rmisp.net] > Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2002 8:56 PM > To: chrish at freedomscientific.com > Subject: Re: I swear to tell the truth, (fwd) > > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 20:44:19 -0400 > From: Scott Howell <showell at lrxms.net> > Reply-To: speakup at braille.uwo.ca > To: speakup at braille.uwo.ca > Subject: Re: I swear to tell the truth, > > What amazes the hell out of me is that if the sighted folk of the world only > gave some though to the matter, they'd probably agree that editing a file is > considerably faster then any gui. Not to mention keyboard access can out run > a mouse clicking any day...that's a proven fact. <grin> Oh how I love these > discussions. Did I mention that do to windows the adverage employee is > producing less? Afterall all that crashing and rebooting reduces output > don't you think?? > > > On Wed, May 01, 2002 at 07:48:43PM -0400, Igor Gueths wrote: > > Hi Cecil and all. An example. I was using War Ftpd on my Winblows > > laptop. It uses Unix style permissions for file access. Only problem is > that the gui makes it extremely difficult to set file permissions, and very > hard to tell to what exactly you are setting those permissions to. In Linux, > all you have to do is edit a config file, and that's it! A process that > should take 1 or 2 minutes, took me about three hours because of the f-ing > gui! > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Cecil H. Whitley <cwhitley at ec.rr.com> > > To: <speakup at braille.uwo.ca> > > Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2002 6:57 PM > > Subject: Re: I swear to tell the truth, > > > > > > > Okay, okay just one more and I might shut up..... > > > Blind people need a GUI. Isn't that the real msg? Why doesn't he > > > give them the real story? Text mode os's are accessable to a degree > > > that a GUI will never be by their very nature. > > > > > > Cecil, stater of the obvious. > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Speakup mailing list > > > Speakup at braille.uwo.ca > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Speakup mailing list > > Speakup at braille.uwo.ca > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup > > > > _______________________________________________ > Speakup mailing list > Speakup at braille.uwo.ca http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup > > > _______________________________________________ > Speakup mailing list > Speakup at braille.uwo.ca > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Speakup mailing list > Speakup at braille.uwo.ca > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup >
