Okay, my blood pressure is back down and my brain has re-engaged. If you will bear with me for one more post I will let the subject go. I feel it necessary to clear up the record and post what M.S. has done for me. 1. Active-x With this lovely extension to web content M.S. has made it possible for me to spread viruses simply by having preview message turned on in outlook (shouldn't that be look out?). Simply by cursoring down or up to an specially constructed email it will automatically launch it's code and possibly send to all entries in my addressbook. 2. M.S. java vm No swing library. No true accessibility. Most of the "text" applets somehow write directly to the screen and "clickable" areas are not reported any differently than just plain text, if it can be called that. 3. M.S. proxy Where do I start in describing this wonderfull product? GUI based configuration and control. It's MICROSOFT which means you get all the support you buy. Lots of third-party stuff you can buy to address it's limitations. Contrast with squid, free and persons who make their living selling support take the time to answer your questions at no charge, it's configured with a text file and reports it's health through a webpage that uses very standard html. 4. Policy editor CPU goes critical (or something) acts as if I poured concrete into the case. Makes one very good boat anchor. 5. MMC (Microsoft management console) Not too bad, makes heavy use of msaa (sure it does), uses standard controls (sure it does). It is usable, but that doesn't make it pleasant. 6. Undocumented interfaces, standards and other misc. For years M.S. used undocumented interfaces in order to implement fancier appearance for it's products than was available to other companies through the "standard" interfaces. The most notable effect of this was to make developers use to making "custom" methods of presentation so that they could compete appearance wise with M.S. products. In fact, for many years the only thing standard about M.S. standards was that M.S. did not use them. This practice appears to be continuing. 7. M.S. TTS Awesome! They certainly broke the budget on this one! It has speech quality almost as good as my old echo pc. Did they find a copy of monologue (no offense to monologue's programmer intended) on a 5 1/4" diskette somewhere and dust it off and include it? 8. Business practices In a word, monopolistic. If the screen reader market was worth their notice freedom scientific and others would be singing a lot different tune. Remember Netscape? Soon it will be remember Real Networks? Driving your competition out of business really spurs inovation, they have to inovatively create new employment for themselves. If you're in a market segment that isn't really profitable, such as access technology they'll let you continue doing business unharrassed, as long as you sing their tune. Why should they spend their resources if they can throw an api or two your way and have you run with it from there so that they can claim compliance with laws such as section 508? Well, we developed MSAA, it's not our fault that it hasn't caught on..... Oh, and one question, if you're doing things just like other access developers, where's the inovation, where's the potential for growth and improvement, and finally what truly distinguishes your product from your competition's? The keys you press to get a particular result? I would like to thank the list for allowing me this opportunity to rant. I do apologize, I realize this post has nothing to do with either speakup or linux in general and is therefore a waste of resources better spent for their original purpose. Once again, Thanks. Cecil H. Whitley