Thanks for the interesting info on the blazer. So, it looks like a eyes-free install of Linux is not possible on a machine with no serial ports, right? Greg On Mon, May 14, 2001 at 11:53:11PM +1000, Kerry Hoath wrote: > Unless it is a 2.4.x kernel it can't do console on the line printer. > Even if it does; it won't make the blaser talk; there are no flush codes. > You need to put the blaser on a serial port and even then I don't know of anything > other than emacspeak that supports the bns unless cvs speakup does. The blaser > has old implementations of the bns speech code, but I believe it supports > indexing. Doing an install of Linux with the blaser would also be rather bad > since you have no way to shut up the speech, I've done installs like that and > it gets old real quick especially when the kernel dumps 3k of messages out a > port. > If you can't shut it up somehow you don't want it for installs. One disk error > will win you half an hour of speech you can't cancel, but do give it a try :-) > > Regarding shutting up speakup insert enter doesn't release the numpad and the > review keys remain active. I was talking of a method to completely release > certain consoles including the number pad. > On Sun, May 13, 2001 at 11:29:36PM -0500, Gregory Nowak wrote: > > I thought we already had the ability to put speakup to sleep and to wake it > > up with ins+numpad-enter. Also, not to get off topic ... I know there are > > some of you out there that either have used or are still using emacspeak. > > Any recommendations on where to start after the howto if I decide to take > > that route until speakup gets software speech? Also, I was thinking of how > > to install Linux on such a system without sited help. I've got a braille > > blazer here. I thought of setting up speech through the blazer's parallel > > port, and using the line printer console. However, when I include > > "console=lp0" on the loadlin command line, the kernel oopses, and I don't > > know of how to activate the console on /dev/lp0 after logon. Any > > suggestions? Thanks. > > Greg > > P.S. The kernel *doesn't* oops if I leave that option out. > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Kerry Hoath" <kerry at gotss.eu.org> > > To: <speakup at braille.uwo.ca> > > Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2001 10:57 PM > > Subject: Re: software speech for speakup > > > > > > > Ok so that was all 1 big long line! I won't be slicing that message > > > down into smaller sections in ed os it remains attached below. > > > > > > The fundermental problem with software speech and speakup is this: > > > speakup gets control extremely early on in the boot process, just after > > the > > > console driver or at the same time. At this point; no sound is > > initialized, > > > no hard disks are known, ho usb is active, no file systems > > > are mounted and therefore sound and viavoice can't yet be loaded. > > > Via voice is a huge application, and putting it into the kernel isn't an > > > option since it would make the kernel image too large and anything in > > kernel > > > image is unswappable and consumes memory. > > > Not to mention we don't have the viavoice source so we > > > can't even integrate it if we wanted to. > > > > > > It may be possible to do something like keep speakup asleep until viavoice > > > is running, and make some shim between speakup and viavoice but this > > > is not trivial. What you are trying to do is take information > > > from kernel space (console driver) handle it with speakup, hand it to > > userspace > > > to a program that mightn't even be running anymore, have that program > > > synthesize the speech and pass it back to kernel land sound drivers that > > we > > > presume you loaded. This is going to make the performance of the system > > like > > > cyphoning honey uphill. Even assuming the speakup mods were made by > > somebody > > > in the forseeable future, there are many more moving parts to make work. > > > What if one of the tasks such as viavoice dies or sound drivers unload, > > how > > > do we tell the kernel to tell user space to tell the kernel to tell user > > space > > > that something ahs gone wrong? > > > Emacspeak is a user application. It calls a speech server > > > to interact with its talking device and assumes that sound and viavoice > > are > > > in top shape. When the speech server crashes emacspeak respawns it. > > > What you are asking is for speakup to become re-enterant, the ability to > > put it > > > to sleep and wake it up at will and the ability to talk to it from user > > space > > > despite the fact it is kernel code and have that kernel code talk back to > > > user space. This requires a complete redesign of speakup > > > and although it may be possible, so is Bill Gates giving away all his > > > money and becoming a hermit. > > > Even if Kirk changed his mind regarding viavoice tomorrow and coded flat > > out > > > until the project was complete it would require months of coding time > > before > > > the whole system was usable if indeed it could be done. > > > Remember Windows screen readers run in user land and although they hook > > into > > > the windows subsystems they are applications like any other. Speakup is in > > > the kernel itself and is part of the operating system. > > > Ever had jfw or windoweyes crash and lost your speech? Often you are left > > with > > > no clue as to why it happend and often jfw is unrestartable. If we were to > > > have this happen in Linux it may result in bits of the kernel becoming > > > unusable and could lead to an entire system crash. > > > My personal recommendation is to learn how to use emacspeak, preferably > > from > > > a seasoned emacs user and learn about term mode and shell mode. > > > W3 is a nice browser, vm works well and so does emacspeak. Once you have > > this > > > down pat, you can then use the c-mode in emacs to start writing the code > > > for speakup and take some of the weight off the existing coders <smile> > > > If it takes you a week to get emacspeak working for you, it will tide you > > over > > > until tuxtalk is ready for prime time. > > > There are other userland screen readers and one supports software speech > > can't > > > remember what it is called. Use that until the massive > > > modifications are in speakup itself around 2010. > > > If we get more coders things might go faster, but until then; you might > > need > > > to use another solution for accessability if you have no serial ports. > > > > > > Regards, Kerry. > > > On Sun, May 13, 2001 at 06:13:40PM -0500, Gregory Nowak wrote: > > > > Hi All, > > > > > > > > Ok, here is my penny's worth on software speech for speakup. I certinly > > don't mean to flame or unconstructively critisize here, so please read on if > > you're interested. There are some of us that don't have serial ports on a > > PC, but do have a sound card supported in Linux (based on some earlier posts > > I've seen on this list, I know I'm not alone in this situation). As a > > result, I would personally like to entirely blow away the other OS on such a > > machine, and dedicate it to Linux (simply because I'm getting tired of using > > the other OS on it, and because all its hardware is Linux compatible). I > > know that Kirk mentioned that he was working on a software synth that would > > work with speakup in the far future, and that he wouldn't write anything for > > IBM viavoice, because it wasn't an opensource product. However, as I stated > > earlier, there are thoes of us that would like to be able to use software > > speech with speakup in the very soon future (now). Yes, I know that I could > > use emacspeak which supports viavoice. However, I've recently downloaded it > > and played with it for two days (even read the howto). Given a choice of > > access though, I would much rather stick with speakup. Thus, not writing a > > driver for a product that is not opensource (and so far for me works without > > a hitch) is a serious limitation to access. Speakup certinly doesn't have to > > be distributted with viavoice (emacspeak isn't), but it would be nice to > > have the option of using it. It shouldn't be that hard to modify a dectalk > > or doubletalk PC driver to work with the speech engine. I've taken c++ my > > junior and senior years of high scghool (AP computer science). Even so, I > > have somewhat of an understanding on how the sample programs work that come > > with the engine. I also plan to read the API docs, and hopefully learn more. > > As you can see, I'm not a candidate to write the speakup driver for > > viavoice, so I'm not volenteering. I certinly wouldn't mind switching to the > > opensource engine when it became usable. However ... ok, I've wined enough. > > Kirk, I guess I'm sim > > > ng your mind regarding viavoice as a speech engine for speakup for now at > > least. If there is anyone else here that agrees with me, please write so > > that we could see how many more takers there are, and maybe try to persaude > > Kirk some more to change his mind. Thanks for reading. > > > > Greg > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Speakup mailing list > > > > Speakup at braille.uwo.ca > > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > -- > > > Kerry Hoath: kerry at gotss.net > > > alternatives: kerry at gotss.eu.org or kerry at gotss.spice.net.au > > > ICQ UIN: 8226547 > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Speakup mailing list > > > Speakup at braille.uwo.ca > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Speakup mailing list > > Speakup at braille.uwo.ca > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup > > > > -- > -- > Kerry Hoath: kerry at gotss.net > alternatives: kerry at gotss.eu.org or kerry at gotss.spice.net.au > ICQ UIN: 8226547 > > > _______________________________________________ > Speakup mailing list > Speakup at braille.uwo.ca > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
